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Messages - greenplaid

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61
Black Law Students / Re: prestige over money or money over prestige
« on: April 02, 2008, 03:13:14 PM »
Yeah sounds like you overreacted.  Fill out the forms and go to Cornell.  End of thread.


 :D


Yeah, do what they said and see about $ for Cornell.

BTW, I went to Rutgers Newark and there are a couple of Cornell folks in my class at my firm in Manhattan and now we're all at the same place so...it all comes out in the wash I guess.   :P


Lol you know I didn't mean it like that.  Correction:

Yeah sounds like you overreacted.  Fill out the forms and go to Cornell, unless you can manage to be a supastar like Sands, which is statistically unlikely.  End of thread.

"supastar like Sands"
This is the consensus of the board Burning, Esq. You did and do take care of 'business.'
Hats Off!

62
"The reason why the workers who live in the clouds act and think better than the ones down in the caves is because of their lack of exposure to the gas."

It is interesting to substitute group mindsets for "the gas." 'Victim-hood' looms large.
'Expectation of oppression' might fit as well.


Sure, but we could also look at environmental and biological conditions of where black people live.  For example, we could look at malnutrition/starvation in sub-Saharan Africa, which cannot bode well for the outcome of intelligence tests.

News Release
3 March 2008

DREW BARRYMORE ANNOUNCES US$1 MILLION DONATION ON OPRAH

DREW HELPS “FILL THE CUP” FOR THOUSANDS OF KENYAN SCHOOL KIDS

CHICAGO – Drew Barrymore, one of the world’s most recognized film stars, today announced a personal donation of US$1 million on The Oprah Winfrey Show to help the World Food Program (WFP) feed thousands of school children in Kenya. 

“I have seen with my own eyes what a difference a simple cup of nutritious porridge can make in a child’s life,” said Drew Barrymore.  “It helps them learn, stay healthy and sets them on track for a bright future. I urge everyone -- everywhere -- to help WFP ‘Fill the Cup’ for hungry children, and make hunger history.”
... One of the schools Drew Barrymore has visited in Kenya is Stara, in Nairobi’s sprawling slums where students say WFP lunches make a real difference.

 “Often I come to school without anything to eat. A meal at school helps me because at home we sometimes don’t have any food to eat. The learning is going well for me - when I grow up, I want to be a doctor,” said Caroline Okasire, a student at Stara.


As part of the “Fill the Cup” campaign, WFP is seeking US$3 billion -- just 25 US cents a day -- to feed 59 million hungry school children in developing countries worldwide for a year. People can donate by clicking on “Fill the Cup” at www.wfp.org.

Last year, WFP provided more than 20 million school children with a daily cup of porridge, rice or beans, in addition to giving many girls a monthly ration to take home to their families. Up to 70 percent of WFP’s food used for school meals is purchased from farmers in the developing world.

http://www.friendsofwfp.org/atf/cf/%7B90e7e160-957c-41e4-9fab-87e2b662894b%7D/03.03.08-DREW%20BARRYMORE%20ANNOUNCES%20US$1%20MILLION%20DONATION%20ON%20OPRAH.htm


63
I haven't been following this thread up close, but I saw an episode of Star Trek this weekend that reminded me of it.

There was this alien society that was made up of two main classes--a class of politicians and intellectuals who lived a life of priviledge in the clouds and a class of workers who lived on the surface and in the caves below.  When asked to explain this situation by Captain Kirk, the head politician claimed essentially that the workers below were an inferior race.  He didn't use those exact words, but he basically said that the workers were not capable of abstract thought or civility--that they were violent and stupid by nature.  Kirk then asks about the minority of workers who lived in the clouds to serve the intellectuals.  The guy says that those workers have had more intensive training and learned to be civil, but they were still inferior essentially.  Kirk obviously isn't comfortable with this situation.  The Federation is very much about equality, but it's also about respecting individual cultures and societies and letting them rule themselves--so it is a delicate dipolomatic balance for Kirk and crew. 

Eventually, McCoy figures out that the reason why the workers are so stupid and violent is because of a odorless, invisible gas that this emitted by the raw substance they mine. The reason why the workers who live in the clouds act and think better than the ones down in the caves is because of their lack of exposure to the gas, which is also the reason why the upper class is so intelligent.

Now, obviously, there was no genetic component to the explanation of the difference between the two races.  The difference was explained by a not-readily-detectable environmental factor.  A genetic component could have been injected here--like, generations of a people's exposure to this environmental factor leads to this racial difference.  (That would have made the show too complicated and made a resolution to the conflict difficult.)  But, I think that might be a fair representation of some racial differences we see in reality.

Just some random Star Trek-inspired thoughts.

"The reason why the workers who live in the clouds act and think better than the ones down in the caves is because of their lack of exposure to the gas."

It is interesting to substitute group mindsets for "the gas." 'Victim-hood' looms large.
'Expectation of oppression' might fit as well.

Others?

64
Minorities, poor get "highly gifted" lift
A new DPS system awards some kids an extra boost to make things more equitable.
By Jeremy P. Meyer
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 03/04/2008 06:34:50 AM MST

Polaris at Ebert second-graders Guinness Vanos, left foreground, and Jlynn Terroade, both 8 years old, join other students in learning dance techniques during a physical-education class. ( Craig F. Walker, The Denver Post )More minority and poor students in Denver are being classified as highly gifted under a new system that gives extra credit to children who are economically disadvantaged or nonnative English speakers.

Denver Public Schools is trying to fix a disparity in the program that serves its smartest and most talented students — which up until now has drawn mostly white students in a district that is mostly Latino.

"It's a much more holistic look at the kid," said Diana Howard, principal at Polaris at Ebert, the district's sole elementary school for the highly gifted and talented. "I wanted this system to look at much more than test scores. This is going to have a huge impact."

More than 1,800 students in Denver Public Schools — about 3 percent — fit the highly gifted classification and are served by magnet programs at seven elementary schools and one middle school.

Denver is the only district in the metro area that has a program specifically for "highly gifted and talented students."

To determine who gets into the program, the district previously relied on oral tests that measure a student's reasoning and IQ.

But some educators and social scientists believe those tests are biased against students learning English and poorer students who may not have had the same life experiences as their richer peers.

"They may be bright children but may not know what plaid is," Howard said. "Or their concept may not have involved a vacation. Or they may have never been on an escalator."

To make things more equitable, the district now relies on a sum of measures to determine eligibility into the highly gifted program — cognitive tests, annual assessments, reading tests and teacher nominations. Next year, the district will consider artwork and writings.

Also, students get extra points toward entry into the program if English is their second language or if they receive federal meal benefits — a measure of poverty.

For example, a student who scores as low as the 75th percentile on cognitive tests could be considered, Howard said. Previously, that child would not have been admitted.

"We want to find the gifts that these children have, not exclude them," she said.

Experts in the gifted field say DPS's change follows a national trend.

"Standardized tests are tipped against children from underserved populations and children from diverse backgrounds," said Nancy Green, executive director of the National Association for Gifted Children. "We have got to find other ways besides verbal tests to determine whether kids are gifted."

The American Civil Liberties Union in California last year threatened to sue the Tustin Unified School District over low numbers of Latinos and African-Americans in the district's gifted programs.

Districts from Miami to New York are giving more credit to smart children from culturally diverse or economically disadvantaged backgrounds, said Joshua Wyner, executive vice president of the Jack Kent Cooke Foundation.

"If what we are trying to do is measure not accomplishment but giftedness and talent, then putting your thumb on the scale or adding points for kids from low-income backgrounds re-equalizes things," he said. "The question is how heavy should that thumb be?"

Wyner said weighting the system carries political risks.

"If there are a limited number of slots in those programs, then the wealthier student who is excluded will always feel wrongly excluded if their test scores were higher than a lower-income student or Hispanic student who was included," he said.

Jaime Aquino, DPS's chief academic officer, said adding more highly gifted students will not exclude others.

"Every school gets an allocation per student who is identified as gifted and talented, so they can provide them some enrichment or some differentiated services within the building," he said. "You have several magnet programs throughout the district. Many still have room. It's just whether the parents want to send their kids to those schools."

More students are applying

DPS's student population is 57 percent Latino, 20 percent white and 19 percent black. But the highly gifted and talented program serves only 25 percent ethnic minorities, Howard said.

After this year's screening, a third of the newly identified highly gifted students are ethnic minorities, Howard said.

One other reason for the more diverse field is that more students are applying to be in the program. This year, the district began mailing home applications to likely candidates with self-addressed stamped envelopes to be returned to the district office.

With that change, the district received about 500 more applicants for the program. Almost 170 more students were accepted for the 2008-09 school year than this year — including 49 English-language learners and 119 students who receive free and reduced lunches. Those were threefold increases in both categories over the previous year.

"This is exciting," said Howard, who started the district's only elementary school for highly gifted and talented students in 2000 in the old Crofton school in Five Points.

Initially, the student population was 30 percent Latino, 30 percent African-American and 30 percent Anglo — drawing mostly kids from the northeast part of town.

The program has since moved to the larger Ebert School, just north of downtown, and began getting kids from homes in the Stapleton redevelopment. Howard said that changed the demographics of the school, which is now 70 percent white. About 10 percent of the 341 students get federal-meal benefits.

Enrollment into Polaris is highly competitive, with an annual lottery and a waiting list. The Denver school board last year promised to open another highly gifted and talented school, but so far DPS has not delivered.

Letters went out late last month to parents who had sought to get their children into the school. Many were rejection notices telling them of other options for highly gifted students.To meet the growing need, Polaris is dropping a kindergarten class next year and adding another fourth grade, Howard said.

Thirteen of the 33 new fourth-grade students are ethnic minorities, Howard said.

Inside the brick building, off Park Avenue West, creative chaos takes place, Howard said.

"We're very messy," she said, pointing to a cardboard box overflowing with forgotten coats.

Artwork adorns the walls, African drumbeats waft from dance class, and fourth-graders in the library study for their trip to Crow Canyon Archaeological Center, near Mesa Verde National Park.

Chirps and squawks

Inside the kindergarten classroom, chirps and squawks come from the menagerie of caged animals — a snake, chicken and hedgehog.

"Does this belong in the classification of poetry or fiction," asked teacher Eileen Wise, after reading a story to the class while petting a hedgehog in her lap.

Kindergartners entering Polaris are reading "Harry Potter" while peers elsewhere are learning their ABCs.

"They are very different children — difficult to raise," Howard said. "They are very intense. This is a safe place for kids to be, and ask their weird questions and make up their strange games."

Soon, she hopes, kids from all backgrounds will have the same opportunity to be safe and weird in their brilliance.
http://www.denverpost.com/technology/ci_8442882

65
Multimedia
 Graphic
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/11/28/us/29diverse_graphic.html


"A recent study says grades help explain the gap. To ensure diversity among new associates, the study found, elite law firms hire minority lawyers with, on average, much lower grades than white ones. That may, the study says, set them up to fail."

From: The Black Experience at Major Law Firms http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/29/us/29diverse.html?adxnnl=1&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1204639529-NsqrWu7tOskb2/E9YJd21Q

66
The University of Dayton School of Law
Blacks in Law Schools
Professor Vernellia R. Randall
http://academic.udayton.edu/TheWhitestLawSchools/2005TWLS/Chapter7/IsolationAfrican.htm

"The Least Isolating Law Schools. Schools were considered least isolating if they had greater than or equal to the percentage of African Americans in the National LSAC Application pool. Seventeen schools (9.1%) were found least isolating because they had equal to or greater 10.6% African Americans.  Five were historically Black colleges and universities (HBCU) two of which had less than 50% Black and one of which had 50% exactly.  This information raises an interestingly dilemma.  Since most law schools (52.1%) are under-serving African Americans and most HBCU are decreasing their education of blacks, who will be responsible for the training of black lawyers?  It is ironic that University of District of Columbia, an HBCU, is only 34% black.  Of the least isolating schools, the Mid-South accounted for eight schools (47.1%) while the Southeast with only one.  Approximately 64.7% were private schools. The 1st tier had the highest number of schools with 29.4% while the 2nd and 3rd tiers each had 2 schools."

Top Ten Least Isolating (excluding HBCU)
Rank School Number Percent
1 Thomas M. Cooley Law School (Michigan) 413.00 17.90
2 CUNY-Queens College (New York) 71.00 15.20
3 University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill 97.00 13.70
4 University of Baltimore (Maryland) 130.00 13.40
5 Vanderbilt University (Tennessee) 79.00 13.30
6 Rutgers State University–Newark (New Jersey) 100.00 12.80
7 University of Georgia 88.00 12.70
8 University of Maryland 100.00 11.60
8 University of Arkansas (Fayetteville ) 53.00 11.60
9 Loyola University-New Orleans (Louisana) 92.00 10.80
9 Washington and Lee University (Virginia) 42.00 10.80

 


67
Black Law Students / Re: How well do URMs do in law school?
« on: February 19, 2008, 12:48:42 AM »
1) Where are you quoting that from?

2) There has been some speculation that giving URMs a 'bump' into certain schools is hurting them.  In California the argument was that when URMs got into the schools where their numbers fit, they performed better than when they got into higher ranked schools that were outside their numbers. 

Personally, I think that any person should be able to go to almost any law school and place right in the middle of the class.  However, when you take into account how small some class sizes are (+-100 students) that makes the atmosphere much more competative.  Any student not ready to take on law school from day way is going to have a hard time playing catch up when it comes to grades. 

There is also the argument that many URMs don't face the same support (financially, socially, etc.) when it comes to law school, which also puts them at a disadvantage.  I haven't seen any numbers on this, but I can understand how it would distract someone from their studies. 

December 2004 California Bar Journal Re: Richard Sander
http://www.calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_cbj.jsp?sCategoryPath=/Home/Attorney%20Resources/California%20Bar%20Journal/December2004&sCatHtmlPath=cbj/2004-12_TH_01_Black-law-students.html&sCatHtmlTitle=Top%20Headlinesp
“Something about the atmosphere of law school exacerbates the entering educational gaps of minority and other atypical law students...."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/13/weekinreview/13liptak.html?ex=1266037200&en=a50ec15b9dd39d6a&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt
"Once at law school, the average black student gets lower grades than white students: 52 percent of black students are in the bottom 10th of their first-year law school classes, while only 8 percent are in the top half. And the grades of black students drop slightly in relative terms from the first year of law school to the third."

Additional words of wisdom from those doing well (or who have learned lessons the hard way) would probably be beneficial to all soon to be 1Ls.

68
Black Law Students / Re: How well do URMs do in law school?
« on: February 18, 2008, 10:19:13 PM »
I'm sure we're all aware of the URM boost given in admissions.  However, I'm wondering if I'm at a disadvantage going into law school, being that I have less than the median statistics for admissions.  Furthermore, all this "LSAT is the best predictor of 1L, though not certain" talk.

I want to be able to perform well in law school, of course.  To do so, I'm attending CLEO, been reading up from the #Ls on this forum, and reading books about law school.  I'm not going to let my LSAT score hold me down.

Does anyone have any first hand experiences to speak about?  I'd like to hear some encouraging stories  :)


Said it before and I'll say it again, the LSAT is NOT the best predictor of your success as a law student during law school.  This should almost be self evident but sometimes its worth reiterating.  So as far as using LSAT score to predict success as a minority student in law school is, likewise, not a good metric.

It may sound crazy but if you want to perform well in law school, then you've got to, well....perform.  Go to class, talk in class, take good notes, outline, do the reading, speak with your professor, take practice tests, etc. etc. etc.   Its an endurance race that basically has nothing at all to do with the score you received on that scantron sheet you filled out for the LSAT a year ago.  The only correlation worth mentioning between LSAT and Law School is the amount of work you were willing to put towards both.  In other words, if you showed discipline and determination in preparing for the LSAT, its likely that you will do the same for law school and therefore your LSAT success is quasi-related to your LSAT success.  But even that correlation is loose at best considering the many factors that can happen to a 1L during those 9 months of first year.

In any event, work smart and you will perform well.

Can you shed light on this?
Is this data irrelevant?  :-\

“Something about the atmosphere of law school exacerbates the entering educational gaps of minority and other atypical law students...."

"Once at law school, the average black student gets lower grades than white students: 52 percent of black students are in the bottom 10th of their first-year law school classes, while only 8 percent are in the top half. And the grades of black students drop slightly in relative terms from the first year of law school to the third."



69
“Something about the atmosphere of law school exacerbates the entering educational gaps of minority and other atypical law students...."

"Once at law school, the average black student gets lower grades than white students: 52 percent of black students are in the bottom 10th of their first-year law school classes, while only 8 percent are in the top half. And the grades of black students drop slightly in relative terms from the first year of law school to the third."

Is this data dangerously irrelevant :-\

70
December 2004 California Bar Journal Re: Richard Sander
http://www.calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_cbj.jsp?sCategoryPath=/Home/Attorney%20Resources/California%20Bar%20Journal/December2004&sCatHtmlPath=cbj/2004-12_TH_01_Black-law-students.html&sCatHtmlTitle=Top%20Headlinesp

"...Yale Law School Dean of Admissions Megan Barnett said she doesn’t think the study applies to Yale because “all Yale law students are really exceptional. We get the most talented students in the country so they all end up very successful after they graduate.”

Affirmative action has a number of virtues,” said University of Michigan Law School Dean of Admissions Evan Caminker. “There are virtues in making sure people who graduate from elite academic institutions and are trained to be leaders of society represent what the community is like that they will be living and working in.”

Stanford Law School Dean Larry Kramer issued a statement that emphasized the school’s continued commitment “to diversity in recruitment and admissions of the student body. The faculty and staff of the school share complete confidence in the qualifications of each of our students and value the contributions that their differing backgrounds and perspectives, as well as their intellectual accomplishments, bring to our community.”

Richard Lempert and David Chambers of the University of Michigan, Timothy Clydesdale of The College of New Jersey and William Kidder of the Equal Justice Society issued a rebuttal that will appear in an upcoming Stanford Law Review. Although they did not disagree about the poorer performance of blacks compared to whites, they said that factors other than grades contributed to the gap. “Something about the atmosphere of law school exacerbates the entering educational gaps of minority and other atypical law students,” the rebuttal said.

The authors described Sander’s forecasts as “irresponsible” and said the document was based on “a series of statistical errors, oversights and implausible (and at times internally contradictory) assumptions.” They predicted that a ban on racial preferences would decrease the African-American presence at the top law schools from its current 7 to 12 percent to 1 to 2 percent. Instead of applying to lower-tier schools, as Sander assumes, many black students would not apply to law school at all. Ultimately, the authors said, the number of black law school students could drop by a quarter...."

Posted above:
"Once at law school, the average black student gets lower grades than white students: 52 percent of black students are in the bottom 10th of their first-year law school classes, while only 8 percent are in the top half. And the grades of black students drop slightly in relative terms from the first year of law school to the third."

This appears to be true even at elite schools. Any thoughts as to why ???

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