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Messages - greenplaid

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51
Does this ranking change any minds about the holy trinity YHS?

53
Brian Leiter's Law School Rankings
Ranking of Top 40 Law Schools by Student (Numerical) Quality 2008

Rank by Average of 75th/25th LSAT

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,98155.60.html

54
Brian Leiter's Law School Rankings
Ranking of Top 40 Law Schools by Student (Numerical) Quality 2008

Rank by Average of 75th/25th LSAT

Rank
 School
 Avg. of the 75th/25th LSAT
 Avg. of the 75th/25th GPA
 Approx.
Class Size
 http://www.leiterrankings.com/students/2008student_quality.shtml
1
 Yale University
 173.5
 3.870
 200
 
2
 Harvard University
 172.5
 3.850
 550
 
3
 Columbia University
 171.5
 3.685
 400
 
4
 New York University
 171.0
 3.700
 450
 
5 University of Chicago 171.0 3.625 200
6
 Stanford University
 169.5
 3.845
 200
 
7
 Georgetown University
 169.0
 3.630
 450
(day class only)
 
8
 University of Virginia
 169.0
 3.690
 350
 
9
 Northwestern University
 169.0
 3.600
 250
 
10
 University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
 168.5
 3.640
 350
 
11
 University of Pennsylvania
 168.5
 3.690
 250
 
12
 Duke University
 168.5
 3.715
 200
 
13
 Cornell University
 167.0
 3.660
 200
 
14
 University of California, Berkeley
 166.5
 3.770
 250
 
15
 University of California, Los Angeles
 166.0
 3.695
 300
 
16
 Vanderbilt University
 166.0
 3.685
 200
 
17
 University of Southern California
 166.0
 3.590
 200
 
18
 George Washington University
 165.5
 3.630
 500
 
19
 University of Texas, Austin
 165.5
 3.590
 450
 
20
 University of Notre Dame
 165.5
 3.580
 150
 
21
 Boston University
 165.0
 3.660
 300
 
 
 Fordham University
 165.0
 3.575
 300
(day class only)
 
23
 University of Minnesota, Twin Cities
 165.0
 3.530
 250
 
24
 Washington University, St. Louis
 165.0
 3.500
 200
 
25
 Brigham Young University
 164.5
 3.690
 150
 
26
 Cardozo Law School/Yeshiva University
 164.0
 3.500
 250
 
  Emory University
 164.0
 3.550
 250
 
28
 Washington & Lee University
 164.0
 3.530
 150
 
29
 Boston College
 163.5
 3.590
 300
 
30 Brooklyn Law School  163.5 3.400 300
 
 University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
 163.5
 3.490
 200
 
32
 University of Maryland, Baltimore
 163.0
 3.655
 250
 
33
 University of California, Hastings
 162.5
 3.550
 400
 
34
 College of William & Mary
 162.5
 3.630
 200
 
35
 George Mason University
 162.5
 3.495
 150
 
  University of Alabama
 162.5
 3.575
 150
 
  University of Colorado, Boulder
 162.5
 3.580
 150
 
38 Wake Forest University  162.5 3.425 150
39 Temple University  162.0 3.560 250
  University of Georgia  162.0 3.640 250
  Runners-Up for the Top 40
(listed alphabetically) 
 
 American University
 162.0
 3.395
 350
 
 
 University of California, Davis
 162.0
 3.565
 200
 
  University of Connecticut, Hartford  162.0 3.440 150
  University of San Diego  162.0 3.315 250
  University of Washington, Seattle
 162.0
 3.545
 200
 

55
Wow --

I'd provide less information.  You should make yourself a bit more anonymous? 

But T14 is a stretch unless you score much higher on the LSAT.

Agreed.
shannontotheont, if yours is a serious post, you may wish to delete it. If you apply next year and the post is located by school officers, references, etc., it might suggest a lack of judgment.  Good luck.

56
Incoming 1Ls / Re: YLS 2011? Who's in?
« on: May 05, 2008, 05:06:15 PM »

57
do you have any links?  I was under the general impression that that genetics was more responsible for analytic capacity, while family upbringing and cultural conditions were responsible for shaping the genetic capacity.  That is probably what the original post was referring to by societies.

http://www.psych.utoronto.ca/users/reingold/courses/intelligence/cache/1198gottfred.html

My personal opinion is that genetics plays the positive factor, while the vast majority of cultural indoctrination introduces a negative influence.

The Volokh Conspiracy
[Ilya Somin, October 7, 2007 at 6:45pm] Trackbacks
Clarence Thomas, Yale Law School, and Affirmative Action:

"Like co-conspirator David Bernstein, I think it wasn't unreasonable for Justice Clarence Thomas to believe that he got into Yale Law School without the aid of affirmative action. It is important to remember that Thomas was in the top two percent of his undergraduate class at Holy Cross. When I was a student at Yale Law School in the 1990s, I had numerous white classmates who had gotten in by virtue of being in the top 1-2 percent at undergraduate institutions of the same caliber as Holy Cross, and in some cases ones significantly less prestigious. Admittedly, I don't have any aggregate statistics; but I certainly met quite a few such students during my time at YLS. I was able to meet a significant percentage of the other students at YLS at the time, due to the school's small size; so the people I met were probably a roughly representative sample of the YLS student body. Most of the white YLS students from non-elite undergrad institutions did not have anything in their backgrounds comparable to Thomas' inspirational story of growing up in poverty in a broken home (Thomas' father left his family when he was an infant, and Thomas was raised by his grandfather).

Assuming that Thomas had a good LSAT score, the combination of his record at Holy Cross and his life story might well have been enough to get him admitted to YLS were he white. Based on my observations, he might have gotten in on that basis in the 1990s - a time when admissions standards were probably slightly higher than in the 1970s because by that point Yale had regained its standing as the generally acknowledged no. 1 law school (a position it had arguably lost to Harvard in the 70s).

As liberal constitutional law scholar Mark Tushnet documents in this article, Thomas' opposition to affirmative action is not based on the view that it is intrinsically unjust to whites, but on his belief that it does blacks more harm than good in the aggregate. For reasons I discussed in detail here, it therefore would not be unethical for Thomas to benefit from affirmative action while personally opposing it. In fact, however, it is possible that Thomas had good reason to believe that he might have gotten to YLS even without the benefit of affirmative action. If that conjecture is right, then affirmative action was a net loss for him in that phase of his career (though it probably helped him later in the Reagan Administration). Its existence led potential employers and others to doubt his abilities, without helping him to get into Yale."
http://volokh.com/posts/1191797143.shtml

58
do you have any links?  I was under the general impression that that genetics was more responsible for analytic capacity, while family upbringing and cultural conditions were responsible for shaping the genetic capacity.  That is probably what the original post was referring to by societies.

http://www.psych.utoronto.ca/users/reingold/courses/intelligence/cache/1198gottfred.html

My personal opinion is that genetics plays the positive factor, while the vast majority of cultural indoctrination introduces a negative influence.
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/05/17/State/At_FAMU_law__blacks_a.shtml

At FAMU law, blacks a minority
Supporters of the new law school said it would boost the percentage of black students entering Florida law schools. It hasn't happened.
By DAVID KARP

Enrollment at the new FAMU law school is 44 percent white and 12 percent Hispanic. Black students make up just 36 percent of the student body.

Those percentages are not what Florida lawmakers had in mind when they agreed in 2000 to re-establish the law school, which had been shuttered by the state in 1968 after the beginning of court-ordered integration.

FAMU supporters had promised the school would boost the small percentage of black lawyers in Florida. Instead, the percentage of black students entering Florida law schools has dropped since 2002, when FAMU opened its doors.

And racial diversity at Florida's older, already established law schools also is declining.

"The bottom line appears to be that we are redistributing fundamentally the same number of African-American applicants," said Joseph Harbaugh, the law school dean at Nova Southeastern University in Fort Lauderdale, which has seen its percentage of entering black law students shrink from 12.4 percent three years ago to 5.4 percent today.

The numbers are similar at the University of Florida, where the number of black first-year law students dropped by half this fall. The law schools at Florida State University and the University of Miami also have seen declines.

FAMU was expected to offset those losses by expanding the pool of black law school applicants. But it was built in Orlando, where it has drawn many white and Hispanic students.

Law school dean Percy Luney Jr. said he hears from FAMU alumni who want the school to be predominantly black. But he can't do that, he said. It would be wrong, and it would hurt the school's efforts to build a national reputation.

"I know there are people who think I'm not doing the service I'm supposed to do because I am not admitting more black students," Luney said in an interview. "But I cannot admit black students who do not have a strong likelihood of passing the Bar."

"I think that is the inherent conflict we have. And I don't know how we get beyond that."

59

Being a 3L isn't necessarily easier, but doing the work of a lawyer is.

A RESPONSE TO PROFESSOR SANDER:
IS IT REALLY ALL ABOUT THE GRADES?
JAMES E. COLEMAN, JR. & MITU GULATI∗

"...Racial Paradox paints all black associates with a broad brush. It
acknowledges that some black associates succeed, but does not
explain why. It leaves the impression that only those with relatively
high grades succeed, but does not specifically address the point. Our
experience is that elite corporate law firms do not recruit black
associates from the same range of schools from which they recruit
white associates. Black associates are more likely to be recruited
primarily, if not exclusively, from the most elite law schools. Our
guess is that the elite firms also hire white associates “with weaker
grades” from these same schools.20 Sander does not attempt to
compare the experiences of these two groups of similarly situated
associates, which one would expect to be similar, if merit rather than
stereotyping or discrimination explains the negative experiences of
black associates.

In other words, is the white male student with low
grades from Michigan hired by an elite law firm doing better or worse
than the black student from Michigan with the same low grades and
hired at the same firm because of affirmative action?
We suspect that
the white student is doing better, perhaps a lot better, in terms of his
likelihood of winning the partnership tournament...."
http://www.law.ucla.edu/sander/NorthCarolina/coleman.pdf

60
"The reason why the workers who live in the clouds act and think better than the ones down in the caves is because of their lack of exposure to the gas."

It is interesting to substitute group mindsets for "the gas." 'Victim-hood' looms large.
'Expectation of oppression' might fit as well.


Sure, but we could also look at environmental and biological conditions of where black people live.  For example, we could look at malnutrition/starvation in sub-Saharan Africa, which cannot bode well for the outcome of intelligence tests.


...when  malnutrition & starvation are not factors in low academic achievement....

American Scientist
The Role of Intelligence in Modern Society
By Earl Hunt
"...improved education and training can raise the average achievement of all students.
A study by one of my colleagues (Levidow 1994) showed this in a controlled way. High-school students were given a test of fluid intelligence. They then took a year-long problem-solving-oriented course in elementary physics. The IQ test did indeed predict how much physics the students learned. At the end of the year they took an equivalent IQ test. Their IQ scores had not changed a whit. Furthermore, the IQ test did predict the relative standings of the students on the final examination. However, all students had learned a great deal of physics, as evidenced by comparisons to national standards. IQ may not have been changed, but cognitive competence, in the sense of the problems the student could solve, was increased...."

Levidow's study involved a carefully monitored educational program. Could similar increases in skill be obtained just by putting more effort into education? In 1994 the New York City school system, at the insistence of their new chancellor, required that virtually all 10th-grade students take science courses that previously had been taken by only half the students, usually the more able ones. Enrollment jumped from 20,000 to 48,000 students. Failure rates went up, from 13 percent to 25 percent. Pessimists can point to this as a consequence of trying to teach hard topics to less-intelligent students. There is probably some truth to this. But more than twice as many students successfully completed science courses in 1994 than in 1993. http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/24538/page/8



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