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Messages - allaboutlydia

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11
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: Second Thoughts.
« on: June 08, 2009, 01:02:37 AM »


You should probably all read this article if you're on the fence.

Seriously, if you can think of anything else you might want to do, you should go for it instead. Don't worry about the money and time you've put into preparation, because it's less than you'll spend on the schooling itself. Going with it despite having doubts is a slippery slope, since people will go since they've put so much money into prep, then stick with it once they start school and hate it because they've already shelled for a semester/year's tuition, then get a job they hate that works them like a dog and doesn't pay anything near what they hoped for when they started and stick with it because it'd be a shame to pay that much for school and not break even before changing careers, and then piss away their entire lives with a career they despise because while they've broken even they're too set in the grueling lifestyle, are too old to begin a new career, have no lives outside work anymore anyway, etc.


The link you provided does not work.

12
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Cooley or Whittier?
« on: June 07, 2009, 11:36:16 PM »
Well I look at it like this. I don’t even know where Whitter is. The common wisdom is thought that if you go there your screwed. Ok, fine, but where is this common wisdom coming from? People who go to Whitter or Cooley or Idaho or South Dakota or some other T4? No, its not. Too bad we don’t have more posters on here from T4 schools to give us first hand experiences. But we don’t maybe because if we did all their threads would turn into three pages of everyone telling them how much they suck and they would leave and never come back.

We have a lot of posters from T2 schools and above and at least one from everyone of the top 14 schools (some have many posters). But as far as I know, no one who actually goes to Whitter or Cooley. Like I said, I don’t even know where Whitter is. So I’ll save my judgment on the schools and ones prospects.

We can I think generally agree that going to a T4 school puts you at a disadvantage over going to a higher ranked school. I don’t think it’s as cut and dried as many make it out to be however, epically when your talking local schools. Why do I believe that, not because anyone told me, but simply because that’s been my own personal experience. I mean I had a lot of people tell me how hard it was going to be finding a job going to a T2 school. Well for me that has not been the case at all.

My point is yes there is common wisdom, but at what point to we take someone else’s opinion to be fact that has not had any personal experience whith the subject he speaks with authority on? My cousins, brother’s dog groomer went there so I know everything about it? I mean does anyone here bashing this kid go to a T4? Has anyone here tried to get a job from Whitter, graduated from there, looked for jobs in Orange County? No. Instead we have people who don’t go to these schools and places like JD Underground again full of people who did not go to these schools telling people as if its fact what will happen to them if they go to these schools.

Hell I have enough problems telling what my future will be in 30 mins, much less someone else’s who I have never met, who is a different situation than me, who’s going to a school I have never heard of, in market I’ve never even been to what their life is going to be like in 3+ years. I guess I tend to defer  and prefer to hear it from the horse’s mouth than just chalk everything up to common wisdom.
 
Common wisdom would have said: A) I’d never get into a law school, B- I would never make through law school, C- I would graduate at the bottom of my class, D- I would never get a job from my law school. If I had listen to common wisdom I would have made some really dumb decisions for myself based on what people who are not me, not in my position told me life would be like. I’m pretty glad at this point I did not listen to them. Maybe Whitter is full of people who wished they listened to the common wisdom and did not go there, I dunno, but I bet there are at least some folks who went there and reached their personal goals. I for one am in no position to be casting the first stone however, so I won’t tell other people what their life is going to be like when I can’t even control my own.

I wish we had more students from T4 schools so would could actually here first had experiences, but I can see why, with thread like this, they don’t stick around log to share their experiences.   


Matthies - you rock.  We need more sound and mature heads like you on these boards. 

13
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Cooley or Whittier?
« on: June 07, 2009, 11:29:11 PM »
hello allaboutlydia, I have to correct you due to the fact that you are wrong. You said below that Whittier does not accept students without a bachelors degree. You are wrong. Whittier does in fact accept students withouta  bachelors degree. Here is the link to the facts taken from whittier's website itself. http://www.law.whittier.edu/pstudents/admissions/admissions.html#special
Also, I am going to repost what you posted below. You said "Please research your facts before posting inaccurate information." There you go, maybe you should do your own research before you post inaccurate information.  ;)

My information was accurate.  Please re-read the link you posted.  It indicated that there was a special exception made for applicants who were over 35 and passed initial California Bar exceptions.  It also indicated that this was a limited situation.  Thus, these are exceptions and not the rule as you would have everyone believe.  I do not place my faith in World News Rankings and neither should anyone on this board.  Several deans from ivy league schools penned a letter which can be found on lsac's site indicating that the rankings are not relevant.  They maintain that many schools are riding on their reputation without any progress made to their legal curriculum.  My friend was accepted into Loyola Law School.  According to her stats she should not have been accepted.  She had a LSAT score of 138 and a low GPA.  She met the dean at some law school forum, chatted him up and he assured her she would be accepted.  She freely admits that no way should she have been accepted into this school.  Now here we are 4 years later (she want part time) and she just took the February bar and failed.  On the other hand, another friend went to a 4 tier school and passed the bar on her first try.  John Kennedy, Jr attended an ivy league law school and failed the bar three times.  I have friends who graduated from Columbia and NYU who failed the bar several times.  I don't think law school rankings tell the entire story.  World News is in the business of selling magazines.  It is not in the business of legal education.  I was shocked to learn that Harvard grads are having a hard time finding employment.  I decided to do some research.  I called 25 large firms.  Among them were Weil, Gotschal, White & Case, Paul Hastings, Skadden, Arps, Jones Day, Fried, Frank, Harris & Shriver, etc and spoke to their recruitment department. I  wanted to know what were the chances of someone from a 3 or 4 tier school obtaining employment at their firms.  I've saved the email responses from several of these recruiting managers.  They all overwhelmingly informed me that one should not rely on school rank, particularly national rank to glide you into the door.  They look at grades, internships and overall what sort of legal talent would you bring to their firm.  This was especially true for firms with regional offices who hired new associates from regional law schools. The dean at University Detroit Mercy wanted to give his students a fighting chance.  Aware that his school was listed as a "4" tier school he created the law firm program. An article on this school appeared in the Wall Street Journal How Obscure Law School Places Grads at Top Firms.   I have seen Southwestern (a school I respect) drop in it's rankings.  It's just not fair or mature to base one's destiny on the choice of where one attends school.  The job market is tight and employers are looking for smart attorneys.  You can't rely on "looking good on paper" you have to show you can produce.  It's interesting to me that someone would come on this board and ask people who DON'T ATTEND any of these schools which one is harder?  Considering that most reading and responding to these posts are not attorneys it is asking the  blind to lead the blind.  So for those who are brave, energetic and intelligent prospective lawyers avoid the know-it-alls who really know nothinga and think outside the box.  You'll have to be a bit more imaginative, work harder and be a trail blazer.  Don't let anyone keep you in a box.  Stop putting people in a box.  Reginald Lewis founder and CEO of Beatrice foods didn't even take the LSAT and Harvard admitted him.

14
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Best T3 and T4 Law Schools
« on: May 17, 2009, 01:07:53 AM »

Whittier? Really?
[/quote]

Yes really. I realize that at one time they had been on probation.  However, they have worked really hard to shore up their numbers.  They've stopped accepting applicants with dubious LSAT scores.  They now require extensive pre-bar classes.  Their 2008 bar passage was 80%.  Their new dean is from the University of Colorado School of Law.  Their legal writing program is tops.  They have a collaboration with Pepperdine University for their international program.  They are heavily supported by the Orange County District Attorney's office.  Here is a list of law firms that have hired Whittier grads:

 • Allred Maroko & Goldberg, Los Angeles

• Baker Botts LLP, Dallas

• Ballard Rosenberg Golper & Savitt, LLP, Universal City, CA

• Berger, Khan, Shafton, Moss, Irvine & Marina Del Rey

• Birch, Stewart, Kolasch & Birch, LLP , Costa Mesa

• Blakely, Sokoloff, Taylor & Zafman, LLP, Los Angeles

• Bonne Bridges Mueller O’Keefe & Nichols, Santa Ana & Los Angeles

• Buchalter Nemer Fields & Younger, Los Angeles

• Cooksey Toolen Gage Duffy & Woog, Costa Mesa

• Cotkin Collins & Ginsburg, Santa Ana

• Cummins & White, LLP, Newport Beach

• Demetriou, Del Guercio, Springer & Francis, LLP, Los Angeles

• Fitzpatrick, Cella, Harper & Scinto, Costa Mesa

• Ford, Walker, Haggerty & Behar, LLP, Long Beach

• Fulbright & Jaworski, LLP, Los Angeles

• Fulwider Patton Lee & Utecht, LLP, Los Angeles

• Greenberg Traurig LLP, Santa Monica

• Gates & Cooper LLP, Los Angeles

• Gunster Yoakley, Palm Beach, FL

• Haight, Brown & Bonesteel, LLP, Los Angeles

• Harness, Dickey & Pierce, PLC, Saint Louis, MO

• Heller Ehrman LLP, San Francisco & Singapore

• Holland & Hart, LLP, Denver

• Holland & Knight, LLP, Miami

• Hooper, Lundy & Bookman, Inc., Los Angeles

• Jackson DeMarco & Peckenpaugh, Irvine

• Jackson Walker LLP, Dallas

• Jeffer, Mangels, Butler & Marmaro, LLP, Los Angeles

• Jenkins & Gilchrist, Dallas

• Keesal, Young, & Logan, Long Beach

• Kiesel Boucher & Larson, LLP, Beverly Hills

• Knobbe, Martens, Olsen & Bear LLP, Irvine & Riverside

• Latham & Watkins, New York

• Lewis Brisbois Bisgaard & Smith LLP, Los Angeles

• Loeb & Loeb LLP, Los Angeles

• Masry & Vititoe, Westlake Village, CA

• Manatt, Phelps & Phillips, LLP, Los Angeles

• Manning & Marder, Kass, Ellrod, Ramirez LLP, Los Angeles

• Mardirossian & Associates Inc., Los Angeles

• Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP, Chicago

• Milberg Weiss Bershad Hynes & Lerach LLP, San Diego

• Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp, LLP, Los Angeles

• Morgan Lewis LLP, Los Angeles & San Francisco

• Nossaman, Guthner, Knox & Elliott LLP, Irvine

• Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP, Orange County

• O’Sullivan Graev & Karabell, LLP, New York

• Quinn, Emanuel, Urquhart, Oliver, & Hedges, LLP, Los Angeles

• Reed Smith, Los Angeles & Washington D.C.

• Richards, Watson & Gershon, Los Angeles

• Salomon Brothers, Inc., New York

• Sedgwick, Detert, Moran & Arnold LLP, Los Angeles

• Seyfarth Shaw LLP, Los Angeles

• Shulman Hodges & Bastian LLP, Foothill Ranch

• Snell & Wilmer LLP, Phoenix

• Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal LLP, Los Angeles

• Stephan Oringer Richman & Theodora, Costa Mesa & Los Angeles

• Stradling Yocca Carlson & Rauth, Newport Beach

• Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Tampa, FL

• Toshiba America Information Systems, Irvine

• Wasserman, Comden, Casselman & Pearson, LLP, Tarzana

• White & Case LLP, New York

• Wilson, Elser, Moskowitz, Edelman & Dicker LLP, Los Angeles & Newark

• Wilson, Sonsini, Goodrich & Rosati, Palo Alto

• Winstead Sechrest & Minick P.C., Dallas

• Winston & Strawn LLP, New York
 

15
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Cooley or Whittier?
« on: May 17, 2009, 12:58:54 AM »
I don't anything about Cooley but it's untrue that Whittier accepts students without degrees. You must have a degree and have taken the LSAT to apply and get accepted to Whittier.  There was no scandal involving dismissing most of the student body.  Please research your facts before posting inaccurate information.  Now for some facts:

1.  Whittier is the oldest fully accredited ABA law schools in Orange County
2.  More than 80% of Whittier Grads have passed the bar in 2008
3.  Whittier Grads have the highest starting salary of OC law schools
4.  Here's a list of firms that have hired Whittier graduates:

• Allred Maroko & Goldberg, Los Angeles

• Baker Botts LLP, Dallas

• Ballard Rosenberg Golper & Savitt, LLP, Universal City, CA

• Berger, Khan, Shafton, Moss, Irvine & Marina Del Rey

• Birch, Stewart, Kolasch & Birch, LLP , Costa Mesa

• Blakely, Sokoloff, Taylor & Zafman, LLP, Los Angeles

• Bonne Bridges Mueller O’Keefe & Nichols, Santa Ana & Los Angeles

• Buchalter Nemer Fields & Younger, Los Angeles

• Cooksey Toolen Gage Duffy & Woog, Costa Mesa

• Cotkin Collins & Ginsburg, Santa Ana

• Cummins & White, LLP, Newport Beach

• Demetriou, Del Guercio, Springer & Francis, LLP, Los Angeles

• Fitzpatrick, Cella, Harper & Scinto, Costa Mesa

• Ford, Walker, Haggerty & Behar, LLP, Long Beach

• Fulbright & Jaworski, LLP, Los Angeles

• Fulwider Patton Lee & Utecht, LLP, Los Angeles

• Greenberg Traurig LLP, Santa Monica

• Gates & Cooper LLP, Los Angeles

• Gunster Yoakley, Palm Beach, FL

• Haight, Brown & Bonesteel, LLP, Los Angeles

• Harness, Dickey & Pierce, PLC, Saint Louis, MO

• Heller Ehrman LLP, San Francisco & Singapore

• Holland & Hart, LLP, Denver

• Holland & Knight, LLP, Miami

• Hooper, Lundy & Bookman, Inc., Los Angeles

• Jackson DeMarco & Peckenpaugh, Irvine

• Jackson Walker LLP, Dallas

• Jeffer, Mangels, Butler & Marmaro, LLP, Los Angeles

• Jenkins & Gilchrist, Dallas

• Keesal, Young, & Logan, Long Beach

• Kiesel Boucher & Larson, LLP, Beverly Hills

• Knobbe, Martens, Olsen & Bear LLP, Irvine & Riverside

• Latham & Watkins, New York

• Lewis Brisbois Bisgaard & Smith LLP, Los Angeles

• Loeb & Loeb LLP, Los Angeles

• Masry & Vititoe, Westlake Village, CA

• Manatt, Phelps & Phillips, LLP, Los Angeles

• Manning & Marder, Kass, Ellrod, Ramirez LLP, Los Angeles

• Mardirossian & Associates Inc., Los Angeles

• Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP, Chicago

• Milberg Weiss Bershad Hynes & Lerach LLP, San Diego

• Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp, LLP, Los Angeles

• Morgan Lewis LLP, Los Angeles & San Francisco

• Nossaman, Guthner, Knox & Elliott LLP, Irvine

• Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP, Orange County

• O’Sullivan Graev & Karabell, LLP, New York

• Quinn, Emanuel, Urquhart, Oliver, & Hedges, LLP, Los Angeles

• Reed Smith, Los Angeles & Washington D.C.

• Richards, Watson & Gershon, Los Angeles

• Salomon Brothers, Inc., New York

• Sedgwick, Detert, Moran & Arnold LLP, Los Angeles

• Seyfarth Shaw LLP, Los Angeles

• Shulman Hodges & Bastian LLP, Foothill Ranch

• Snell & Wilmer LLP, Phoenix

• Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal LLP, Los Angeles

• Stephan Oringer Richman & Theodora, Costa Mesa & Los Angeles

• Stradling Yocca Carlson & Rauth, Newport Beach

• Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Tampa, FL

• Toshiba America Information Systems, Irvine

• Wasserman, Comden, Casselman & Pearson, LLP, Tarzana

• White & Case LLP, New York

• Wilson, Elser, Moskowitz, Edelman & Dicker LLP, Los Angeles & Newark

• Wilson, Sonsini, Goodrich & Rosati, Palo Alto

• Winstead Sechrest & Minick P.C., Dallas

• Winston & Strawn LLP, New York

16
Denials / Re: La Verne's harsh rejection leter!
« on: May 17, 2009, 12:36:54 AM »
Actually the school is not new. It's been around since the 1970's it's only been newly provisionally accredited by the ABA.

17
Besides Rancho check out Upland (less than 5  minutes from school), Ontario, Alta Loma, Claremont and Montclair.  However Upland and the Ontario are the closet to the school.  There are some nice homes for rent on Euclid Avenue in Upland.

18
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Best T3 and T4 Law Schools
« on: May 12, 2009, 01:22:56 AM »
In Southern California:  Whittier (has top legal writing progam and excellent international clinic and study abroad programs), Chapman (small, in the OC but up and coming), Southwestern (I heard they moved from tier 3 down to tier 4... I find that hard to believe) and CalWestern (in San Diego).

19
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Whittier vs Cal Western for 1L
« on: May 12, 2009, 01:20:27 AM »
Hmmm, San Diego resident here.  Cal West is competitive.  The San Diego legal market is flooded with lawyers.  I know two recent grads of Cal West who were on law reivew and are looking for work.   

Whittier will have the problem of being 10 miles from the first wave of grads from UCI.  That is going to hurt.  People dont transfer from Whittier and Cal West to UCLA.  Never.

Be happy with the school you choose and be honest with yourself about your prospects.

Unless you have access to all transfer records.. you're not in a position to say "never". Actually my friend transferred from Whittier to Loyola.. so your point is moot.

20
Thomas Jefferson / Re: TJSL Entering Student 2009
« on: April 14, 2009, 01:30:26 AM »
Hi.  Today I visited the school and was quite unimpressed.  I know the building is small, parking was really crazy and the school is located near industrial buildings.  I understand that the school is moving to downtown San Diego in 2011 so that's a good thing.  Anyone else have any information on the school?

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