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Messages - whartonn

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91
Shocked at their choice for #1

92
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Cornell or Vandy
« on: January 27, 2008, 10:30:42 PM »
When I was applying law schools, I was almost swayed by the fact that Cornell is ivy league and ranked 3 higher than Vanderbilt by the USNWR.  This would have been a huge mistake for me.  So, I am trying to offer a perspective for those who may be in the same place I was this time last year. 

Vanderbilt is ranked #7 for best career prospects by the Princeton Review, along with Harvard, UVA, Michigan, Penn, etc.  Strangely enough, I don't see Cornell on there.   And I don't need to keep saying anything - I know where my friends who are 2L's and 3L's are working this summer and next year.

Cravath NY
Cornell: 14
Vandy: zero
Cleary Gottlieb NY
Cornell: 15
Vandy: zero
Simpson Thacher NY
Cornell: 26
Vandy: 2
Latham and Watkins NY
Cornell: 15
Vandy: 1
Sullivan and Cromwell NY
Cornell: 9
Vandy: 2
Davis Polk NY
Cornell: 11
Vandy 1

Whartoon, are you suggesting Cornell grads have an easier time getting biglaw in NY, or are you just pointing out that a lot more Cornell grads opt to work in NY? If you look around Vandy is doing great in NY, DC, Chicago etc, as is Cornell(http://lawfirmaddict2007.blogspot.com/ ). Fordham actually does "better" in NY than Cornell for the amount of summer associates working at the V50 in recent years, but all that suggests is that more Fordham grads want NYC than Cornell grads.  I'm sure Cornell's student body is more geographically diverse than Fordham and I doubt anyone would say Fordham's a better school, but the point is prospectives should be looking more closely at the actual programs than how many people go off to particular firms each year. Cornell sure as hell better have more grads at top NY firms than Vandy, since over half their grads take jobs in-state.  I'd be surprised if even a 1/4 of my class is trying to get Biglaw in NYC, or DC, Chicago, etc.


Yes. I am saying that Cornell grads have a FAR easier time than Vandy grads in getting Biglaw in NY. The stats bear that out. There is no other explanation for the huge disparity in placement rates.

Your suggestion about NY self-selection and comparison to Fordham is without merit. Unlike Fordham, Cornell places outside of NYC. Not only does Cornell thump Vandy at rates of 12 to 1 with the elite NY firms, it also blows Vandy away in Boston.

Furthermore, even if it were true that Cornell graduates simply "opt" to practice in NY, what law school wouldn't love to have their graduates being offered, and choosing to accept, jobs in the highest paying and most prestigious legal market?

Finally, it says something about the difference in ambition and ability between students at Vandy and Cornell if you are correct in saying that 75% of your class is not looking for BigLaw. That's not something to be proud of.

The poster who I responded to tried to assert that Vandy placement was as good as Cornell. Moreover he insisted that Vandy placement in the Northeast was comparable to Cornell. He was wrong on both counts.


Ropes and Gray- Boston
Cornell: 16
Vandy: 3

Goodwin Proctor- Boston
Cornell: 14
Vandy: 1

Bingham McCutchen- Boston
Cornell: 10
Vandy: 1






93
Where should I go next fall? / Re: W&L, Emory, WUSTL, or Iowa
« on: January 27, 2008, 01:58:36 PM »
What is a carpet bagger?
Let's just say I come from a different culture and some words slip by my decoding bank(brain).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

Your avatar is hysterical.

94
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Cornell or Vandy
« on: January 27, 2008, 01:49:14 PM »
Does Cornell place THAT much better than GULC in the northeast, also?

I'm not sure off hand. It might be hard to compare becuase GULC is about 4 times the size of Cornell.

95
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Cornell or Vandy
« on: January 27, 2008, 12:05:15 PM »
When I was applying law schools, I was almost swayed by the fact that Cornell is ivy league and ranked 3 higher than Vanderbilt by the USNWR.  This would have been a huge mistake for me.  So, I am trying to offer a perspective for those who may be in the same place I was this time last year. 

Vanderbilt is ranked #7 for best career prospects by the Princeton Review, along with Harvard, UVA, Michigan, Penn, etc.  Strangely enough, I don't see Cornell on there.   And I don't need to keep saying anything - I know where my friends who are 2L's and 3L's are working this summer and next year.

Cravath NY
Cornell: 14
Vandy: zero

Cleary Gottlieb NY
Cornell: 15
Vandy: zero

Simpson Thacher NY
Cornell: 26
Vandy: 2

Latham and Watkins NY
Cornell: 15
Vandy: 1

Sullivan and Cromwell NY
Cornell: 9
Vandy: 2

Davis Polk NY
Cornell: 11
Vandy 1

96
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Cornell or Vandy
« on: January 27, 2008, 11:39:00 AM »
Vanderbilt has great placement in the Northeast.  Vanderbilt has great placement everywhere.  Vanderbilt's career services is AMAZING.   

I never said it was better than Cornell's.  All I'm saying is that you don't have to go to Cornell to get a job in the Northeast. 

Of course you don't HAVE to go to Cornell to get a job in the Northeast. Of course you CAN get a job in the Northeast from a school like Vanderbilt. But, your CHANCES of getting a job in the Northeast (and really almost everyone else in the US except the South) are dramatically increased if you are coming from Cornell.

97
Law School Applications / Re: USC Scholarships?
« on: January 27, 2008, 11:32:51 AM »
They've accepted, like, 4 people! GET GOIN USC!

Too busy recruiting football players  ;)

98
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Cornell or Vandy
« on: January 27, 2008, 11:29:27 AM »
Ah I don't mean to step on any Cornell law students' toes, so I apologize!  I only mean to share my honest opinion (which is admittedly based on very limited experience)


Perhaps antiquated wasn't the correct word choice, I mean more along the lines of stagnant, not changing, not getting better, just kind of staying the same.


Also, to someone who asked earlier in the thread, Vanderbilt has great national reach.  One of my friends just got a firm job in New York for the summer, which is great for a 1L from ANY school.  The cities that Vanderbilt traditionally has great ties with are DC, Atlanta, Chicago, New York and LA. 

I plan on working in the Northeast.  And every firm I've interviewed with loves Vanderbilt. 

If you plan on working in the Northeast, how could you say that Vanderbilt is better than Cornell. Vanderbilts reputation in the Northeast is okay, but Cornell is a powerhouse. Are you saying that Vanderbilt placement in the Northeast is as good as Cornell?

99
Except law schools select by LSAT scores, while UGs don't, so it's not a fair comparison. I'm sure the average SAT score at MIT, Duke, Penn and Columbia is higher than at George Mason Law School. SAT and LSAT are not perfectly correlated by any means, so there is regression to the mean.

But students at UG who want to go to law school take the LSAT. When the median undergrad LSAT at top 10 schools is below the median LSAT at some law schools ranked in the 30's, it does give one a sense that the general student body at top schools is nowhere near as intelligent as the student body at T14 schools.

PS: Duke, MIT, Penn, and Columbia each has an undergrad LSAT median of 163. GMU law school has a 164 LSAT median.

100
Which is "harder" to get into is a subjective question. The points about the randomness of UG admissions does ring true. With this in mind, it does seem true that there is more certainty in law school admissions for the applicants who have the right “numbers”.

Nevertheless, the numbers required to get into a T14 law school are harder to attain than those for a T10 undergrad. This is so clearly evidenced by the median LSAT scores at T10 schools. When the undergrads at MIT, Penn, Duke, and Columbia have LOWER median LSAT scores than the entering class at George Mason Law School, it is hard to argue that the competition to get into those undergrad colleges is greater than the competition to get into T14 law schools.

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