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Messages - whartonn

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Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Anyone going to Fordham for IP?
« on: February 28, 2008, 12:22:31 PM »
A quick glance over the numbers does make me retreat from my original position a bit.  Perhaps I did not give Michigan enough credit because I was never interested in attending.  However, if I replace Michigan with a school I was interested in, like Berkeley (a school of parity), I quickly realize the errors of my ways  :)

You are not in error at all. You were right to ask me to support my contention. ;D

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Please help- Alabama v SMU v Tulane
« on: February 28, 2008, 12:19:43 PM »
30k at Tulane, full ride at Alabama, and 24k at SMU.  I want to do at least a fairly prestigious clerkship, work in a firm for a few years, and then hang my own shingle.  I am really struggling with the choice between these three.  Any insight would be helpful.

Tulane or Alabama. SMU doesn't place well with clerkships- it had zero this year and last. Tulane has 2 this year and Alabama has 3 or 4.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Anyone going to Fordham for IP?
« on: February 28, 2008, 12:02:50 PM »
But Michigan dominates Fordham in all of the categories you have listed except for location. The two schools are not even close and it would be a huge mistake to go to Fordham over Michigan.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just think that it is necessary to actually provide data which corroborates your claims.  It is apparent that Michigan does take the cake on most of those categories.  It was not, however, something which should have just been accepted as true because you said so. 

Fair enough

Faculty Impact Ranking:
Michigan: 9
Fordham: 33

# of course offerings after 1L @ U Michigan- 2.5 Per Student
# of course offerings after 1L @ Fordham- 2.1 Per Student

Placement: Percentage of Clerks in 2008-2009
Michigan: 5.5% (20 clerks total)
Fordham: 0.4% (2 clerks total) ---Fordham had the same number of clerks as Brooklyn Law

Placement: Percentage of class placement at V10 Firms
Michigan: 12.3%
Fordham: 4.1%

Placement: Percentage of class placement at V100 Firms
Michigan: 41.3%
Fordham: 15.3%

Programs and exchange opportunities:
Michigan: 14 dual degree programs. Great busines school and good school of economics.
Fordham: 2 dual degree programs. It's other schools are mediocre.

Michigan has a better index score and is more diverse

As the placement numbers indicate, Fordham is a feast or famine school. 4% of the class at Fordham is placing at V10 firms, but only 15% are placing inside the entire V100. 12% of the class at Michigan is placing at V10 firms and 41% are placing inside the entire V100. While Fordham is holding its own in ultra-elite V10 placement, it is getting exposed when you examine its lower level BigLaw placement. This re-enforces the idea that the very best at Fordham do really well while those outside the top 1/3 of the class struggle with BigLaw.

You would have to be totally blind not to see that Michigan and Fordham are not even close. Fordham is much, much closer to Cardozo than to Michigan. Fordham is a good law school, but Michigan is a top law school. Unless you have no choice but to remain in NY, passing up Michigan for Fordham would be the mistake of a lifetime.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Anyone going to Fordham for IP?
« on: February 28, 2008, 08:42:30 AM »
PS. Sorry my situation hijacked the thread... I didnt mean for it to happen!  :-\

I completely understand.  My own two cents on the issue is that you should go wherever you feel is a better fit for you.  Law students, especially pre-law students, tend to treat the US World & News as though it was given on Mt. Sinai.  Michigan is a good school no doubt, but if you are intent on a NY life I don't think it is wrong to seriously consider Fordham over Michigan - especially given the fact that you have been offered money from Fordham. 

Choosing a school does not always boil down to choosing the top-ranked school.  Faculty, courses, alumni, location, programs, exchange opportunities, diversity of the student body, and financial concerns IMO matter to a greater extent than an index snapshot of a school provided by a profit-driven company (US World & News). 

It's not at all "wrong" to consider Fordham. Fordham is a good choice if you are unable to leave NY and you cannot get into NYU or Columbia. But Michigan dominates Fordham in all of the categories you have listed except for location. The two schools are not even close and it would be a huge mistake to go to Fordham over Michigan.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: please
« on: February 28, 2008, 06:21:54 AM »
145/3.77 URM, Graduated in 2004, great work experience, excellent LORs and PS.  I'm interested in studying International Law/Public policy.  What are my chances of getting into the following schools?  And which are best for my areas of interest.  Any suggestions or honest feedback is welcome.

Georgia State
Rutgers Newark
Arizona State
University of Chicago

Without piling on, your LSAT is 20 points below the 25th percentile at some of the schools you are applying to. I think Northwestern, UI, and UofC are totally unrealistic with your current score. Some of your other choices might work, although they are still long shots as well. My advice would be to either retake the LSAT or to apply to part-time programs at schools. Applying as a part-time allows the law school to increase their diversity by taking a URM while not having to report the numbers for their official US News Ranking. Maybe Loyola-Chi, Kent, or Depaul part-time? Even with the part-time application, you might want to consider retaking. Either way, I wish you good luck  ;D

Any info on either of these schools would be nice.  I'm a reach for both schools but if accepted to both which should I pick?  I want to get into corporate/big firm law.  Any opinions?

Hastings is only better if you want to work in CA.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Anyone going to Fordham for IP?
« on: February 28, 2008, 06:10:10 AM »
There's a very good possibility I'll be going to Fordham, and I am also interested in IP.  I have a strong music/acting background so I'm especially interested in entertainment law.  Fordham seems to have a very strong IP program: a IP-specific journal, tons of courses, etc.  Unless I get into NYU, I'm almost certain I'll be attending Fordham.

You would go to Fordham over Michigan?!?

You can get a NYC Biglaw job at the median of Fordham's class just as you can at UMich's class.  If you want NYC, I don't see why it's a crazy idea, especially when one has money from Fordham.

Median at Fordham DOES NOT get BigLaw unless they are exceptional. In fact, those outside top 1/3 at Fordham have a rough time because the Fordham degree only has value in NY.

Finishing last in your class at Michigan will give you much better options that finishing middle of your class at Fordham.

Hello everyone.

I've applied to penn state dickinson school of law and was wondering if any of you had an opinion on my chances of getting in.  If anyone has some info on the school that would be awesome too.

I have a 161 on my lsat and a 3.21 gpa.  My extracurricular/work experience is better than average.  I've worked at a law firm in the summer and been involved in student/course unions at my school in executive positions (University of Toronto).   

I've also applied to seattle, syracuse, rutgers, buffalo, miami, florida, and seton hall.  If anyone has info on any of these schools or know my chances with my numbers that would be great if you could share.  Being an international student (Canadian) I only know what the books say and would value your opinions.

If there are other good schools you would recommend with my marks please let me know!


You should be close to a lock at Penn State. You are 2 points above their 75% LSAT.

I think you might want to apply to some even higher ranked schools in the markets you want to be in. Maybe also apply to a few part-time programs at schools like Fordham or Cardozo.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: WUSTL or Tulane?
« on: February 27, 2008, 01:23:18 PM »
I also don't think it is accurate to say that the school doesn't have any money. By most accounts, it has recovered quite well.

I'm not trying to jump on the bash Tulane bandwagon here but it has been known to be a cash-poor school (i.e., relying on a greater proportion of tuition money versus endowment proceeds for operating expenses than its peers) for some time.

Good point.

I would make one observation though: Tulane ranks above Georgetown, William and Mary, and UNC on this list. I think it is fair to say that Tulane is not among the cash-rich schools, but it is not fair to say that it doesn't have "any money".

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Wake Vs. Georgia
« on: February 27, 2008, 01:09:22 PM »
Have you visited both? Which one did you like better? Go with that because all other things are pretty equal. I'd vote UGA because I find in general UGA is a happier place than Wake, and Athens is a happier place than Winston-Salem.

It doesn't get much happier than Athens  ;D

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