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Messages - whartonn

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1
Take a look at the new Brooklyn Law School rankings.  For every other school, they have combined full time and part time LSAT scores in the main rankings.  Not for Brooklyn.  They use just the full time scores.  And for the part-time rankings?  Brooklyn is not even listed.   So what's the story?  Did Brooklyn not tell US News about its part-time folks, or did US News screw up?  A correction seems to be in order here -- Brooklyn should probably have gone down in the rankings with the new formula rather than up.

That's a good point. Why isn't Brooklyn law even listed among the part-time rankings?

2
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Thoughts on transferring after 1st year
« on: February 01, 2009, 09:29:26 PM »
Transferring is notoriously difficult. That said, FSU takes a ton of xfers each year. They still have the taint of being xfers, but at least they made it to the promised land.

FSU grads still have the taint of being FSU grads, but at least they can sit for the bar.

3
I humbly submit the University Athletic Association (the UAA or the "nerdy nine") for your consideration:

NYU- 5
Chicago- 7
WUSTL- 19
Emory- 22

4
W&L was always ranked T20 until these past few years.

If you want to work in the Northeast, mainly Washington, nobody beats U of Washington.

If you want to try out the East coast, W&L is pretty excellent. Unlike the previous poster, I love the small town environment. Great outdoorsy stuff.

For their respective markets, they place pretty much equally well. Cost of living is cheaper at W&L

I think you meant to say "Northwest"

I would agree that WU is the right choice for the Northwest and W&L is the right choice for the South and some of the Mid-Atlantic


5
Acceptances / Re: Wash. U./St. Louis or Wisconsin/Madison? Help!
« on: July 18, 2008, 12:49:36 PM »
I would choose UW-Mad if you plan to stay in Wisconsin. Otherwise, WUSTL would be a better choice. NLJ 250 placement is about 15% better at WUSTL and they place about 2-3 times as many Federal clerks.

I think UW-Mad and WUSTL have about the same laymen's prestige, although WUSTL is known as a more selective and prestigious school by professionals.

While I was not crazy about the law school facilities at UW-Mad, there is no doubt that Madison is a great college town.

Another slight concern might be the different trajectories of the schools- WUSTL has generally been on the rise while UW-Mad has been falling.

I would choose WUSTL, but you have to weigh your own interests.

6
Where should I go next fall? / Re: UNC? or WM?
« on: June 10, 2008, 09:52:16 AM »
I was wondering if anyone could  tell me what they know about UNC law school?....how is the program there and finding jobs in the private sector...in NY or DC?

also how is it compared to WM? which one would you go?
THANKS
UNC is good law school with pretty good placement in the DC region. Im not sure about its placement in NY.

As for the school itself, I know that they have some funding issues and have lost a huge amount of talented faculty during the last three years. Posters generally describe the student body as collegial and relaxed. I also know that the law school has a high percentage of in-state students.

Would you be in-state at UNC?

Hey. I am out of state for UNC...
hmmm so are you saying UNC is kind of going down every year?
what do you think of Wake Forest then? (if you do that is)


I don't think that UNC will be going down every year, but it has certainly been in a rut lately.

I don't know that much about Wake. I do know they have a very small class size and have a good faculty. I imagine their employment prospects are similar to UNC.

7
Where should I go next fall? / Re: UNC? or WM?
« on: June 09, 2008, 06:39:02 PM »
I was wondering if anyone could  tell me what they know about UNC law school?....how is the program there and finding jobs in the private sector...in NY or DC?

also how is it compared to WM? which one would you go?
THANKS

UNC is good law school with pretty good placement in the DC region. Im not sure about its placement in NY.

As for the school itself, I know that they have some funding issues and have lost a huge amount of talented faculty during the last three years. Posters generally describe the student body as collegial and relaxed. I also know that the law school has a high percentage of in-state students.

Would you be in-state at UNC?

8
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: How many students get A's
« on: June 09, 2008, 06:31:09 PM »
Let's say in a class of 100, how many A's are awarded per class? How many B's etc. My school has 3.35 curve.

Depends on how the teacher awards grades. It could be a bi-modal distribution with many A's and many C's. It could be a median-focused curve where nearly all of the students receive around a B+

Without knowing anything about your specific teacher, the majority of professors at my school (which has a similar curve to your school) give solid As to about 10% to 15% of the class.

9
Where should I go next fall? / Re: 2009 US News & Vandy
« on: May 19, 2008, 10:09:11 PM »
Are you serious? I guess it's also equally fine to say that it's significant that GULC didn't place the same amount of students in large firms as there are students in Vandy's entire class...and then some. In reality, it's silly to talk in terms of raw numbers because they tell the wrong story. It presupposes a quota system, for one, which is very very likely a false assumption. But even ignoring that, firms choose their associates from schools based on a GPA created by a curve. Curves are percentage based and limit prospects relative to the opinion of the hiring firm.

You've missed three separate posts (apparently) of mine in this thread where I agree fully with your sentiments about the NLJ 250 not giving the total picture of opportunities. So of course (for the third time) I am not suggesting that Vandy has better biglaw prospects than Yale. The graphic (which I have referred to three times or more) I posted underscores this and shows that Yale has superior placement to everybody. The data needs to be altered (aggregate clerkships + biglaw paints a clearer picture).

Moreover, you're moving the discussion beyond GULC v. Vanderbilt (or UCLA), which is where I am arguing. As I explained, the argument I am making is that the T14 cutoff that you're dying to upkeep is misinformed. This is not to say that schools in your T14 do not place tremendously better than Vandy. Clearly HYS, for instance, do. However, when you talk in terms of T14 opportunities, you obfuscate the issue. The issue is whether or not there is this strict cutoff that warrants prospectives and others talking in such a manner.  The questions are whether GULC deserves to be included in this elite list, if more schools should be included, or if fewer schools should be included.

So far you've spent your time showing that GULC has better placement than Vandy. As I said much earlier in this thread to you, I am not arguing that the prospects are better for the GULC grad. I am arguing that the difference is not so large that the T14-talk is warranted. You keep missing this.

Edit: On academia, again, placement needs to be looked at in terms of %s and GULC is almost 3 times larger. GULC places better in academia, but this is not the discussion.

It's not silly to talk in terms of raw numbers when we are dealing with a limited pool of firms. It is far easier to spread 89 students over 250 firms than it is to spread 315 students over 250 firms.

It's not simply that Georgetown has better career opportunities than Vandy, it is that the difference is significant. 10% more at NLJ 250, 5x the number of new academia from 2003-2007, 4x the number of Supreme Court clerks from 2000-2007, and double the percentage of students placing at V100 firms in 2006. These numbers do not even take into account the alternative and non-traditional career choices made by Georgetown students which would be unavailable to most students at Vanderbilt.

Your unofficial spreadsheet purportedly indicates that Vandy might have improved employment prospects from previous years. That might turn out to be impressive news once it is more widely disseminated. But until that information can be compared with the corresponding information from the T14, it is not relevant in disproving the differences or similarities between Vandy and the T14.

10
Where should I go next fall? / Re: 2009 US News & Vandy
« on: May 19, 2008, 09:01:04 PM »
Another interesting link, for what it's worth. http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/05/law_professor_hiring.html

Georgetown placed more than 5 times as many students in academia from 2003-2007 than did Vandy

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_teaching.shtml

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