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Messages - barond

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Current Law Students / Re: T4-1L
« on: July 28, 2010, 09:36:39 PM »
I was told historically 5 to 12% get academically dismissed.  Honestly, in my evening section there were only 35 students and 4 or 5 got swept out. Evenings get hit a little harder because its technically part time.

A lot of the class were professional people working jobs and some had the family/kids element in play.  I don't know exactly who got dismissed until I show up next month, but I have a decent idea as to a couple of them.  To answer your question- NO-  they probably did more reading and studying than I did.  But probably ineffective studying.  Now, I did notice a few people going to sleep during a lecture occassionally or texting there friends, but as a whole EVERYBODY in that class wanted to be a lawyer.  Losing 30,000 and the emotional turmoil for failing out surely has to be motivating.

I came into school terrified of getting booted and that fear still motivates me.  This past month I picked up LEEWS and bought a couple audio programs to set me up this next semester.   A long time ago, when in the army- I got bounced out of a specialized school and it hurt. I also talked to a lawyer who had 2 good friends who were smart and intelligent but got dismissed from law school. Thus, not everybody is fortunate enough to pass law school. Every graduate is to be commended for the prestigious J.D.

Current Law Students / Re: T4-1L
« on: July 28, 2010, 03:39:16 PM »
It appears to be easier. I also wouldn't say people who get dismissed are 'dummies' per se.  Getting a bad grade can happen to anybody- it certainly happened to me in Torts.  The thing is to keep plugging along and making sure you learn from your mistakes and not perform poorly multiple times.

The curve also gets relaxed for all non-required courses. After the 1st year you are allowed to take electives, select easier professors, etc.  Certainly, having the top students leave also helps.  Almost zero people get dismissed after the first year, but you have to be soo careful even as a 3rd year. I would be sleeping a lot better prior to exams if I had the luxury of a 'bad' grade being a 3.0- like many top schools who indulge in grade inflation arising out of pressure to keep a prestigious image.

Current Law Students / Re: T4-1L
« on: July 27, 2010, 11:32:41 PM »
It would not be 1/3rd of the total credits. Closer to 1/5th.  The summer class schedule is more condensed and thus the 7 credit maximum limit. The fall/winter semesters you typically take 15 credits. Also, the more credits you earn the less impact a bad grade has. Thus bad grades arising out of the 3rd semester will be softened and therefore not much attrition shall arise. My T4 = UDM. 

The good thing about insane attrition is that it brings a sharp focus to the task at hand (lawyerly analysis on exams) . Even though academic attrition is mostly urban legend, it certainly exists here and keeps you scratching and clawing just to keep your head above water.

Current Law Students / Re: T4-1L
« on: July 27, 2010, 11:03:51 PM »
Assuming arguendo that your saying a full year constitutes 3 semesters( Fall, Winter, and then Summer semesters). During the summer, my T4 only allows up to 7 credits to be taken.

Current Law Students / Re: T4-1L
« on: July 27, 2010, 08:55:25 PM »
I'm thinking 2 semesters.  A lot of that 'attrition' arises from students transferring during the summer after 2nd semester grades. Mathematically, it would be hard to survive 30 credits and somehow drop below the required GPA from 6 credits in the 3rd semester. What is the point you are trying to make?

Current Law Students / Re: Commercial Outlines
« on: July 25, 2010, 02:39:57 PM »
You all are some proactive, planning folks on here.  I did not even know what a commercial outline was until I showed up the school bookstore during 1L orientation.  I personally prefer Emanuel because it has some test questions at the end of each chapter.

Online Law Schools / Re: ABA has a monopoly on Law Schools.
« on: July 24, 2010, 12:25:37 PM »
I agree that the ABA ought to be ferociously sued for deceptive advertising, fraudulent practices, and other wrongdoing arising out of ABA business practices.

However, a worse yet epidemic is these frivilous online 'colleges'.  Anyone getting an online degree might as well not get any education. How that junk infiltrated education is outrageous. Do these 'students' pay tuition equivalent to a legitimate school with proper accreditation? Online law schools should be done away with.

I go to school in the evenings and there are some students who work full time and have 2 or 3 kids who are older than you.  If you want law school bad enough its possible to do it part time at night 4 days a week. You would have Friday, Saturday, and Sunday without school. You could take as few as 3 classes (9 credits). Taking 18 credits a year you can have your summers completely off and get a J.D. in 5 years.  I have a feeling the more 'prestigious' the school is the less friendly they are to part time students.
Theres even one student (who i really felt sorry for)-- she was a single mother who worked full time and also did part time law school. Several times she actually brought her kid to the school because she did not have day care accomadations. Myself, I am glad to be an old  student without any other people (kids, significant others) disturbing my studies. This is a 3 or 4 year job and all that extra curricular stuff makes law school even more difficult. I was glad my girlfriend dumped me 2 months into law school. I quit my job right before first semester exams and I should have done it sooner.

If you have a good job now- you're probably making significantly more money than a new lawyer. Would you be willing to reduce yourself to part-time if things got too overwhelming in school?  The real problem with someone who has a good job and wants law school is the relocation aspect.

Why didn't you end up going to law school last year?

Current Law Students / Re: Best Audio study aids?
« on: July 18, 2010, 08:35:17 AM »
I just picked up some Law School Legends audio cassettes  on evidence and property for a small amount.    Is Sum and Substance superior to the others?  It seems they are more expensive- but a few people have been happy with them.

I also listened to the Civ Pro audio 'permanent erection' guy. He was pretty good and honestly up until a few weeks ago I had not realized every main law course has audio programs available.

Just curious how Golden Gate attrition is compared to my Tier 4 .  We also do not have a mandatory cut, but the 2.7 curve yields a predictable bell curve wherefore the bottom of the class is swept out.  We started with 236 in the fall.  Only 213 were around to take the Term 2 exams.  13 of the 213 appear to be below the required 2.0 on the class ranks. This is actually much lower than recent years- it is usually 20 students.

So that leaves 200.  Take away the expected 20 to 30 transfers (not me) and you are left with approximately 175 students and a 26% attrition rate. Assuming arguendo that this constitutes one of the highest attrition rates in the country ( i think it is top 10) it is still not unreasonable because many of these numbers were not arising out of academic dismissals.

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