« on: September 02, 2007, 02:32:07 PM »
You are quoting a man who was a former slave. You do realize that. If you are not conscientious enough to understand his frustration when writing this, then I would suggest you throw yourself a bone and try practicing a lil empathy. If you were tormented and harassed beyond the very fiber that holds you together as sentient being you would want your opressor to leave you the hell alone as well.
I have been in situations where either my "betters" or "tormentors" spent significant time imposing their ideas upon my particular circumstances. I can empathize with with what Douglass is saying, but I think the two of us disagree not on the likely emotional state of Douglass when he said this statement, but on the substantiative content of the statement itself.
According to the literal text of this statement, Douglass is asking for the chance for blacks to prove their worth, RATHER THAN asking for help.QuoteIf the apples will not remain on the tree of their own strength, if they are wormeaten at the core, if they are early ripe and disposed to fall, let them fall! I am not for tying or fastening them on the tree in any way, except by nature's plan, and if they will not stay there, let them fall. And if the Negro cannot stand on his own legs, let him fall also.
Douglas explicitly advocates against "tying or fastening them on the tree in any way," a statement from which I assume he advocates against the ministrations of well-meaning people towards the black population of his time. It is because of the history of this particular era that I think this advocation against assistance is so compelling.By the way PN you are certainly a formidable opponent with regards to this debate, but I honestly think further dialogue would be better left exercised vocally. I would welcome my future law school to have such a debate. That is of course after we debate more pressing moral issues that affect the very livelihood of mankind (i.e. suspending habeus corpus, spying on law abiding citizens, incompetence & indolence of rebuilding new orleans, occupying a foreign territory, voter intimidation and ballot fraud) . Pardon my sarcasm, but I think debate on AA should be the last item eaten when we set down at the round table for the great meal of morality and injustice.
Well, I'm not sure what any of the things you mention have to do with what Frederick Douglass said.
FWIW, in inflation-adjusted dollars, more money has been poured into New Orleans than was poured into all of Europe via the Marshall plan.
I will only respond to the katrina comment. You are absolutely positively correct. We have spent a total of 127 billion dollars on katrina which is about 40 billion more than we spent on the marshall plan. the gross gdp of new orleans is only 141 billion. It seems only about 25 billion or so went to sources for which we can modestly account (army core engineers, housing relief) the rest went to subsidiaries of haliburton and other large firms which by the way have a "labor" work force made up entirely of illegals. I don't know how far you lean to the right, but you and i know there has been a gross mismanagement of katrina relief. Whatsmore, is it has been done under neocon leadership.