Law School Discussion

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51
i firmly believe that . . .

The point is you need to make decisions not on what you believe, but rather, on reality. You're not some all powerful God whose thoughts control the world.

Is this a fact of reality or something you believe?  Do you see how those things aren't necessarily discretely separated? 

52
The point is........you will find a job.........you will do fine.........most law schools are not bad investments.........

Finally an encouraging post!
BTW,does T2 stand for top 20 and t4 for top 40?

That and 99c will buy you an item off the 99c value menu. At what point does "encouragement" turn into a lie which will harm your future?

I think it's more about parity than about deceiving someone.  We hear a *lot* of horror stories.  There seems to be a stream of current and former law students who want to espouse this knowledge (undoubtedly because they went to law school for the wrong reasons and now resent their situation.)  However, we rarely hear the story "I'm a T2 grad and I'm facing bankruptcy because I can't find a job."  It always seems to come from T14's who think the rest of us are going to hell in a fast car.  It gets old quickly. 

I have a friend who graduated with a Computer Science degree from a T4 public university, barely made it into a T2 law school, graduated in the top 10% of his class with an interest in IP and is starting with a T10 law firm this fall making the $160K salary that is apparently so scarce and greatly coveted.  So it happens.  It doesn't happen to everyone or even a lot of people, but it happens to people who work hard and want it enough. 

Better advice would be: XYZ is what you have to do to get a good job/get into the top 10% if you're in a T2/T3 law school.  Even better: "This is what I did to get into the top 10% at my Tier 2 school."  I suppose that students in that situation have no reason to be on this board. 




53
http://www.insidecrm.com/features/mbas-are-overrated-081307/

Proof M.B.A.s Are Overrated, by 20 People Who Are Smarter and Richer than Your Professors
Business luminaries share their thoughts on why M.B.A.s aren't all they're cracked up to be.

Inside CRM Editors

Most business schools would love for you to believe that an M.B.A. is the ticket to huge paychecks and unlimited career growth. However, a large number of businesspeople have achieved success without a business school's stamp of approval. In fact, BusinessWeek reports that fewer than one of three executives who reach upper- echelon positions hold an MBA. Before deciding to spend significant money and effort on earning an MBA, consider what these successful and intelligent players in the business world have to say about getting a business degree.

   1. Warren Buffett's investments have earned him over $52 billion dollars and made him the third richest man in the world. Buffett built his wealth without an MBA and believes that "business schools reward difficult, complex behavior more than simple behavior, but simple behavior is more effective."

       
   2. Guy Kawasaki was one of the original players that got Apple on its feet with the Macintosh. He now works as a venture capitalist in Silicon Valley as CEO of Garage Technology Ventures. Kawasaki holds an M.B.A. from the University of California but doesn't believe it's been the source of his and others' success in the tech industry. Kawasaki remarked, "I don't think an M.B.A. matters very much for starting a company. A much better educational background is an engineering degree. You can always hire MBAs, but if you don't have the ability to conceptualize and deliver a product, you've got nothing."

       
   3. Larry Ellison is co-founder and CEO of Oracle Corp., a major database software company. Despite attending multiple colleges, Ellison never graduated but boasts a net worth of more than $18 billion. Ellison once remarked to recent grads of a top management school, "Now that you have an M.B.A., you will never be as successful as me!"

       
   4. Henry Mintzberg is an internationally renowned academic who has spent the majority of his professional career writing about business and management strategy, boasting 13 books and more than 140 articles to his name. Though he received an M.B.A. and a Ph. D. from Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Sloan School of Management, Mintzberg is extremely critical of the current M.B.A. programs at schools like Harvard and the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School. He commented, "The M.B.A. trains the wrong people in the wrong ways with the wrong consequences. Using the classroom to help develop people already practicing management is a fine idea, but pretending to create managers out of people who have never managed is a sham."

       
   5. Ross Perot, former presidential candidate and billionaire, never attended college. Perot's company, Electronic Data Systems, was sold for $2.4 billion to GM in 1984, a move that helped Perot establish his current net worth of $4.3 billion. That's not too bad for a Texan with no formal business degree. Perot, like many others, feels that real-life experience can be superior to textbook learning. Perot reflected, "When I go to the Harvard Business School, I talk to them about the real world. At business schools they live and think in terms of organizational charts. But life is a spiderweb; everything crosses at odd angles."

       
   6. Christine Comaford has held positions ranging from Buddhist monk to geisha trainee. Although she never completed high school or college, Christine has become an entrepreneur, CEO and multimillionaire. She has put in time as an operational high-tech officer at Microsoft, Lotus, Adobe and Apple and has worked as a strategy advisor to Oracle and Symantec. All of this makes it easy to believe her when she said, “When it comes to success in business, an M.B.A. degree is optional.”

       
   7. Jim McCann, president and CEO of 1-800-Flowers, was one of the first retailers to use the Internet to sell goods and services directly to consumers. Although he did this without an M.B.A., McCann had real-world knowledge and experience from operating several small flower shops in New York City. When asked if he thought a degree helps entrepreneurs be more successful, he replied, "Do you need a degree? Not necessarily. The smarter we get, the more things we know we can't do. I probably wouldn't have had such good fortune with 1-800-Flowers if I were smarter. I would have thought too much about why the deal couldn't be done."

       
   8. Arthur Taylor, former president of CBS and founder of the A&E Channel, thinks that an M.B.A. can potentially hurt entrepreneurs. Talyor believes that "innovation is not going to come from people who sit in the classroom and undergo an organized thought process. An MBA stunts creativity."

       
   9. Leonard Lauder, Chairman and CEO of Estee Lauder, puts experience above education when hiring new employees. Lauder explained, "Most of the people who work here started out at lowly jobs — behind the counter selling our products or working in the office as secretaries or assistants. These people are running the business now. They know what the customer wants."

       
  10. Grace Murray Hopper greatly impacted the way we use computers today. Hopper was one of the first programmers on the Harvard Mark I calculator and also developed the first compiler for a computer programming language. Hopper has been quoted as saying, "You manage things, you lead people. We went overboard on management and forgot about leadership. It might help if we ran the MBAs out of Washington."

       
  11. Kris Chellam is CFO of California semiconductor company Xilinx and a former financial manager at Intel. Chellam is another executive who believes that an M.B.A. doesn't prepare you for the business world as well as working. He advised, "One learns more from experience and peers than any M.B.A. program."

       
  12. Mark Astone is the CEO of Panagraph, a Fresno, Calif.-based strategic marketing and communications firm. Under his leadership, Panagraph has achieved substantial growth and has won numerous awards including Bee’s "Business in Excellence Award." Astone has an M.B.A. but believes that M.B.A.s aren't necessarily a ticket to success. He says that even those with MBAs from prestigious Stanford University "get real delusional" about their capabilities. He also feels that time invested in school might be better spent elsewhere: "If you put the same effort into a job, career and getting experience, you'll be better off.

       
  13. Carl Hiassen is a well-known author and former investigative journalist. He has published more than 20 books, 2 of which have been developed into major motion pictures. Known for his stance on environmental issues and conservation in his native Florida, Hiassen feels that business schools often corrupt the idealism and ethics of entrepreneurs, remarking that "they have a crystalline sense of right and wrong; it disappears when they walk out the door with their M.B.A.."

       
  14. William Gordon is co-founder and CCO of Electronic Arts as well as a member of Amazon.com's board of directors. Gordon thinks that an M.B.A. is something that should be considered on an individual basis: "It’s a very hefty investment of money and opportunity for anyone who already loves their job."

       
  15. Marc Cenedella is founder of theladders.com, a Web site dedicated to helping job seekers find jobs in the salary range of $100,000 and up. Since it is his job to match qualified candidates with high-paying positions, he knows a thing or two about factors that help you get ahead. Cenedella believes that M.B.A.s can be helpful, but warns, "no degree can guarantee success in the arena. It's important for executives to focus on how an M.B.A. enables job success, not just cocktail-party bragging rights. A diploma on the office wall doesn't mean you'll reach the penthouse."

       
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54
Law School Applications / Re: June 07 LSAT Mail Thread
« on: August 08, 2007, 05:33:42 PM »
US Mail: Chapman University Admissions Material + Fee Waiver. 

55
Law School Applications / Re: June 07 LSAT Mail Thread
« on: August 07, 2007, 06:48:47 PM »
Ooops, didn't mean to stick that smiley in there, obviously.

You know you can edit previous posts right?

56
Law School Applications / Re: June 07 LSAT Mail Thread
« on: July 30, 2007, 11:11:06 AM »
Flier/Pamphlet from Charlotte School of Law ... was curious when I didn't find them on US News.  It seems they're currently applying for ABA Accreditation. 

57
Law School Applications / Re: June 07 LSAT Mail Thread
« on: July 22, 2007, 09:54:39 AM »
I received a packet from Seton Hall with a fee waiver if I apply for Fall 2007.

It's helpful if you have an LSN profile linked or your stats are in your footer/signature

58
Law School Applications / Re: June 07 LSAT Mail Thread
« on: July 20, 2007, 05:53:43 PM »
E-MAIL: Reminder about Dayton preview day.  Anyone going to this?

59
Law School Applications / Re: June 07 LSAT Mail Thread
« on: July 18, 2007, 03:26:27 PM »
E-MAIL: ONU Re-sending invitation to apply F2007 because of problems with LSAC/Online Application. 

"It has recently come to our attention that due to upgrades at the Law School Admissions Council, all Electronic Applications were unavailable for the past week. The Applications should be available by Thursday, July 19, 2007. We apologize for this inconvenience and encourage you to check back on Thursday if you are interested in applying."

60
Law School Applications / Re: June 07 LSAT Mail Thread
« on: July 17, 2007, 11:30:15 AM »
E-MAIL: JMLS-Atlanta invitation for fall 2007.  No mention of scholarship dollars or fee waiver, but they did highlight the student body's "noncompetitive nature" ...

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