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Messages - ElMismoPandejo
« on: October 12, 2007, 01:11:29 PM »
Yeah, I would definitely take Western over any of your other options.
Western places great on Bay. If you do as well at Western as you have to at Brooklyn to get NYC biglaw, you will be able to transfer to Osgoode/UofT and get NYC biglaw.
« on: October 12, 2007, 12:30:03 PM »
There are very few firms that are in the middle ground between 30-50K/year and 80-160K/year. You have to be within or very near the biglaw cutoff for the latter, and you can't afford to pay off your loans with the former. The few opportunities in the middle ("midlaw," some government jobs) are so fiercely competitive to get that it's hardly worth mentioning they exist. That's why they call this a "bimodal system"; someone recently did a study on this, I think it's somewhere on abovethelaw.com.
I think Fordham's cutoff is closer to top third than top half. GW's NYC cutoff is definitely top third and I don't really think Fordham does much better. Oddly enough, you might want to check XOXO for some talk about this.
It's true that most Brooklyn grads who actually respond to the survey are employed. (They have to do something to eat, and the ones who aren't employed are too depressed to respond to the survey or systematically excluded.) It's true that the average Brooklyn grad makes like $90K. (This will happen when you have a few people making 160K+bonus and the rest make around 50K.) See what I mean...
The job situation is somewhat better in Canada. If you have connections up there, why not just stay in Canada? Firms at the top don't pay as much up there, but the situation isn't as dire on the bottom. Just like everything else about Canada vs. the US, if you think about it.
You have a low GPA for Canada but your LSAT is above a lot of Canadian school medians. Plus, many Canadian schools will let you drop your worst grades, especially if you did your UG in the US have have 4 years of grades. You might be competitive for several Canadian schools.
Let's say the best you can do is get into Windsor, which can't be more than 15K/year. I'd much rather be at median at Windsor than median at Loyola or Cardozo. Not only is a 50K/year job in Toronto easier to get than a 50K/year job in NYC, but that money goes farther up there and your loans are much lower. Now you say in the off chance you can get into the top 10% at Loyola, you can work biglaw and get 160K, when a comparable job in Toronto pays $90K. First consider that your competition at Windsor will be easier. Second consider that if you're really that good, you can take that top 10% ranking, transfer to U of T your second year and interview in NYC from a school with a much more generous cutoff than Brooklyn or Cardozo. (You can take the NY and Mass bars with a Canadian law degree, and you can take the Cali bar after you pass any other US bar.) And Toronto biglaw's cutoff at Windsor is much more forgiving than the biglaw cutoffs at any of the US schools you mentioned except Fordham.
So all around, I think your prospects are much better in Canada. Also, for example, Osgoode takes your best three years of college. If that bumps your GPA up, you might be able to get into Osgoode, maybe with a few extra LSAT points, and they definitely take your best LSAT. Not only does Osgoode have low debt when compared to the US, Toronto biglaw goes very deep (about 50%) into Osgoode's class, and NYC biglaw goes about 20%, a little better than Brooklyn/Cardozo and a little worse than Fordham.
« on: October 12, 2007, 01:30:46 AM »
You don't sound like you're really passionate about being a lawyer. You sound like you're looking for something to do with your life that might make you some decent cash without being too hard. Well, you're looking in the wrong place.
Don't like your options? Re-take the LSAT and do a lot better. Then you can move to NYC.
With a 3.0/163, NYC won't work for you. Now those aren't horrible numbers and you do have options. What state do you live in? Do you like living there? Is there a school in your state with cheap tuition? You can probably get in.
Forget about Fordham. With your numbers if you got PT you'd have to pay full price, it's an ultra-competitive hellhole just like the other schools you described, and you have to scratch yourself into the top third to make ends meet when you graduate. With those odds you're better off in Vegas, especially considering the best you'd be competing with people who had higher numbers.
The odds for the schools you mentioned are about twice as bad. Yeah, the cutoff at Pepperdine is probably under 10% and at Brooklyn it's probably 15%, but big deal. It's all about the same.
There are some perfectly decent state schools that will take your 3.0/163. Just look on LSN and figure it out. And if you can get a 167 in December, that opens up some even better state schools.
You said you didn't want to get stuck with a "worthless degree." Look, any non-T14 law degree is pretty much worthless outside the biglaw cutoff. It won't really get you a job, it's just a tool that allows you the CHANCE to create something you can sell. The law field is a lot like sales. You scheme and hustle and network to make a buck. And with enough scheming around, you should be able to move somewhere and qualify for in-state tuition at a school that won't destroy your future in student loans.
Did you really study as hard as possible on the LSAT? Can you get 5 wrong or less? Because if you can, you can get a T14 and then you won't even have to think about the more dismal side of the profession.
« on: October 11, 2007, 11:27:35 PM »
Yes, the same is true from BK/Cardozo. From Pepperdine, I don't even know if top 10% will do the trick.
Why, why, why are you considering these schools? WHY? Unless you get a full ride or something, there are about 9283748239 posts on the internet telling you what a horrible idea this is.
« on: October 11, 2007, 11:24:46 PM »
um, it sucks. HTH.
« on: October 11, 2007, 11:24:15 PM »
Memphis MIGHT be an OK to school at attend IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN MEMPHIS. If not, don't go there.
If you want to work in Nashville and make decent $$ (not market, but just decent $$) you have to go to Vandy. If not Vandy, you have to go to UTK and be in the top 25% at least.
If you want to leave Memphis and aren't in the top 10% or have crazy connections, you're screwed.
Also if you're worried about taking 150K out for Vandy, you should be. The top half has a shot at paying it off, the bottom half can't. I think you can still get A job in Nashville out of Vandy's bottom half, but it won't be enough to live decent and make those payments.
« on: October 11, 2007, 11:19:26 PM »
Whichever one is almost free.
Seriously, most TTTs will do the trick for this sort of work. Yeah, eventually you can make a living if you're good, but at first you won't make jack while you're learning the business.
Now, if you go to a real rancid TTT, you might be out of luck because even the local family court judge won't take you for a clerkship or local family firms won't hire you. Remember, the job market is extremely tight these days. You'll be competing with a T25 student in the top half of his class who has to scrape the bottom because he couldn't make biglaw. HTH.
« on: August 17, 2007, 11:08:00 PM »
Thanks for your help. If you have any questions about the upcoming admissions cycle, for the US at least, ask away and I might be able to help you.
« on: August 16, 2007, 04:27:43 PM »
Thanks! I guess I figured it would be really hard for some reason.
I probably don't qualify to get into any Canadian law schools anyway. I have an incredibly crappy GPA (like sub 3.0) and a LSAT over 170, but it doesn't seem like they care as much about the LSAT in Canada. No US News breathing down their necks. It's weird, people with my #s can get into T1 schools in the US but I don't know about Canada.
Thanks for the info though.
« on: August 15, 2007, 03:00:50 PM »
I am just curious about Canada because it's a cool place. Can an American with no ties to Canada go to law school in Canada and then become authorized to work there? Don't you need to become a citizen or something? It is possible to become a dual citizen if you go to law school up there? I have no relatives in Canada and no special talents.