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Messages - und3r3stimat3d

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11
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Stanford or take the money?
« on: March 03, 2008, 07:16:28 PM »
Go to Stanford.  $50,000  just isn't that much in the long term.  LIke MCB said, you can make that up during 1L and 2L summer.

I don't really agree with this line of reasoning.  The $50k is a relative, not absolute amount.  So to "make up" any of it, one must compare earnings out of SLS and those out of CCN.  True, there's a decent chance that an SLS student could earn $50k while in school.  But if the same can be said for the CCN student, then the $50k difference remains unchanged; none has been made up.

well actually, i was just counting money during 2L summer.  honestly, i love ccn, didn't even apply to sls (wrong coast) but if OP loves stanford, i don't think 50k should stand in the way.  i'm not saying this as someone who loves debt--i'm very debt averse.  but happiness, especially at a stressful place like ls, is key. if OP will be happiest as sls, then he should go--like i said, he'd make up half of the 50k diff in 2L summer.

Don't really have any advice that hasn't been said already.  I think MCB is right, though.

Just want to say congratulations on all your options!

TY.  Are you visiting this week?  I'll be at a few of the events.

yup! i'll be at columbia wednesday/thursday and nyu on friday.

12
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Stanford or take the money?
« on: March 03, 2008, 03:48:03 PM »
Quote
This sounds a little reckless to me. I don't think I have the luxury of saying "What's another 90,000!" I'm not saying it's not the right approach, just a little risky.

Yeah, you're right. I should have put more though into it. I guess my feeling was just that if you were talking about a full scholly at UVA or Penn, then one of those might be the obvious choice, but even in that scenario some people might pick SLS. With a half scholly, you still have to worry about pretty significant loans either way, so I felt you should take the higher ranked school. However, upon reflection, I'd say it depends a lot on what you want to do. If you're just interested in firm work, there isn't any real difference in what you're likely to make coming out of any of those three schools, so it might actually make more sense to go with the cheaper option; at the same time, if you're going into firm work, then the financial difference between the schools might not be that significant overall. You're right, it is a tough call. I guess the question is whether the differences between what SLS can offer and what the other schools can is worth ~60k (or whatever the actual difference works out to). For most career options, the opportunities each school will give you are likely to be fairly similar, so it might just come down to how much the intangibles between the options matter to you. Basically, I don't think you can go too wrong either way.

Are the scholarships to UVA and Penn named scholarships? That might also be a factor, since presumably a named scholarship erodes at least a little of the prestige difference between the schools.

Thanks! I didn't mean any offense at all, I just want to be careful with money. The prudent thing to do MIGHT be to go to Stanford, but it might not. It's difficult! Anyway, the UVA scholarship is just a "dean's scholarship" (same with Cornell. At Penn, it's the James Wilson Scholarship. None of them sound too prestigious (not like Darrow or Hamilton). I still think I'm leaning Stanford, but would get swayed with 60K at Columbia or Chicago. I may also try to negotiate with Penn and UVA. Hopefully Stanford gives a kick ass need based grant package.

Regardless of what you do, you should definitely use your SLS acceptance to negotiate with Penn/UVA for more money. There's no harm in trying. You should also visit each if you can. And there is something to be said for the debt situation. That's a really tough call. I have one undergrad stafford loan for $5,000 and that monthly payment is already annoying the hell out of me. I am dreading the day I log onto sallie mae and see a $150,000 balance. Just taking a year off in between ug/law school and working full-time has given me a completely different perspective on just how expensive life can be - It is a little reckless/naive when people on the board dismiss $50,000 as no big deal - $50,000 is a really significant difference!!! That being said, if Stanford is your dream you should go. I wanted to go to Penn more than anything and I don't think half-tuition at say gtown or cornell would have swayed me from going to Penn. Neither would an acceptance at CCN but that's a different story...I understand if the same is true for you with Standford. It could very well be worth $50,000 more for you. But it's something you should put a lot of thought into.

How do you go about negotiating tactfully? "Hey UVA, you only gave me 60K, but I got into stanford! Pony up!"???

13
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Stanford or take the money?
« on: March 03, 2008, 03:06:23 PM »
Quote
This sounds a little reckless to me. I don't think I have the luxury of saying "What's another 90,000!" I'm not saying it's not the right approach, just a little risky.

Yeah, you're right. I should have put more though into it. I guess my feeling was just that if you were talking about a full scholly at UVA or Penn, then one of those might be the obvious choice, but even in that scenario some people might pick SLS. With a half scholly, you still have to worry about pretty significant loans either way, so I felt you should take the higher ranked school. However, upon reflection, I'd say it depends a lot on what you want to do. If you're just interested in firm work, there isn't any real difference in what you're likely to make coming out of any of those three schools, so it might actually make more sense to go with the cheaper option; at the same time, if you're going into firm work, then the financial difference between the schools might not be that significant overall. You're right, it is a tough call. I guess the question is whether the differences between what SLS can offer and what the other schools can is worth ~60k (or whatever the actual difference works out to). For most career options, the opportunities each school will give you are likely to be fairly similar, so it might just come down to how much the intangibles between the options matter to you. Basically, I don't think you can go too wrong either way.

Are the scholarships to UVA and Penn named scholarships? That might also be a factor, since presumably a named scholarship erodes at least a little of the prestige difference between the schools.

Thanks! I didn't mean any offense at all, I just want to be careful with money. The prudent thing to do MIGHT be to go to Stanford, but it might not. It's difficult! Anyway, the UVA scholarship is just a "dean's scholarship" (same with Cornell. At Penn, it's the James Wilson Scholarship. None of them sound too prestigious (not like Darrow or Hamilton). I still think I'm leaning Stanford, but would get swayed with 60K at Columbia or Chicago. I may also try to negotiate with Penn and UVA. Hopefully Stanford gives a kick ass need based grant package.

14
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Stanford or take the money?
« on: March 03, 2008, 01:16:23 PM »
Without a full scholarship at any of the other schools, I say take Stanford, pending a visit to make sure you wouldn't hate it for some reason. Wherever you go, you're still gonna come out with some pretty significant debt, so you might as well make your decision without regard to money.

This sounds a little reckless to me. I don't think I have the luxury of saying "What's another 90,000!" I'm not saying it's not the right approach, just a little risky.

Stanford affords you the opportunity.

Their superior LRAP + PI programs + placement would make it the correct choice if you wanted to save the world.  Their superior BIGLAW placement (in both prestige and Cali QOL firms) would make it the correct choice if you wanted to sell your soul.

Plus its in California...

It seems that in all likely hood you won't be receiving a $90k+ scholarship from CCN, so you probably won't be burdened with this problem.  (not to mentions Stanford's deep need-based pockets)

and you think stanford still makes sense with 60K from Penn/UVA or 50K (potential) from one of CCN? I just need to hear someone validate this for me.

15
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Stanford or take the money?
« on: March 03, 2008, 12:52:36 PM »
Without a full scholarship at any of the other schools, I say take Stanford, pending a visit to make sure you wouldn't hate it for some reason. Wherever you go, you're still gonna come out with some pretty significant debt, so you might as well make your decision without regard to money.

This sounds a little reckless to me. I don't think I have the luxury of saying "What's another 90,000!" I'm not saying it's not the right approach, just a little risky.

16
Law School Applications / Re: UCLA or Penn
« on: March 03, 2008, 12:51:04 PM »
Of course philly has finance jobs! Go to Penn. JD/MBA can't be beat (if you can get into the program. Maybe talk to admissions people about the competitiveness first?)

17
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Stanford or take the money?
« on: March 03, 2008, 01:15:17 AM »
Thanks guys. I just wanted to make sure I'm not being irrational for favoring SLS over UVA/Penn at this point. I feel really lucky to have gotten in.

My family is pretty midde class and I did well for need based aid undergrad... I'm assuming SLS has a pretty good need based aid program? Anyone whose gone through the process have any idea of what kind of awards they give out and when I can expect them? I wouldn't say my family is poor, but our EFC for college was in the teens. Now, my EFC is obviously 0, but that's because I'm considered independent by FAFSA and have no income.

eh, if you have to fill out Need Access (for any school) you may get screwed despite an efc of 0 for FAFSA

We'll see how it goes. Hopefully stanford ponies up. if not, i might work for a year (some might find this silly because i'll make more after law school, but i do want to work before law school to make sure law school is for me. however, if working is just going to decrease my need based aid, i'm not going to do it. there'd be no incentive).

18
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Advice for 0Ls
« on: March 03, 2008, 01:13:34 AM »
Just found this site and would like to offer you 0Ls some advice. As a T14 ivy league grad, I wanted to remind you guys not to overlook scholarships at strong regional schools. I turned down several non-ivy T14s and scholarships at T25 to Tier 1 schools. To make a long story short, I graduated a little bit below median and was unable to secure a job at any firm paying over 70k. I was pissed off at first because I had friends at much lower ranked schools making market (UC Davis, Tulane, Fordham, Cardozo, Loyola, etc). The good news is that I eventually got a market rate job after working a government gig for a few years. The bad news is that I still have a lot of debt.
If I could make the choice again, I would have jumped on the schools that offered me scholarships.

I hope this advice was helpful and I'd be happy to answer questions.

...and do not ask specific questions about me because I will not give away my identity.

By your moniker (and the fact that you say you were at T14 ivy grad), it appears you went to Cornell. I'm interested in Cornell, but am concerned that the work load is ridiculous and that I'd end up below median and with no great job. How common was your experience?

19
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Stanford or take the money?
« on: March 03, 2008, 12:41:25 AM »
Thanks guys. I just wanted to make sure I'm not being irrational for favoring SLS over UVA/Penn at this point. I feel really lucky to have gotten in.

My family is pretty midde class and I did well for need based aid undergrad... I'm assuming SLS has a pretty good need based aid program? Anyone whose gone through the process have any idea of what kind of awards they give out and when I can expect them? I wouldn't say my family is poor, but our EFC for college was in the teens. Now, my EFC is obviously 0, but that's because I'm considered independent by FAFSA and have no income.

20
Where should I go next fall? / Stanford or take the money?
« on: March 03, 2008, 12:16:25 AM »
I'm trying to figure where I'm going to go to law school. My cycle is basically over (no final word for Harvard or Northwestern, and no final $$$). Here's how my choices are looking:

Stanford (obvious choice?)

vs.

CCN (no money at any of them yet)

vs.

UVA/Penn (~half tuition at each)

vs.

Cornell (35K/year)

What would you chose in this case? I'm leaning Stanford, unless CCN give me something approaching what UVA/Penn gave me. Does this seem rational or prestige-whorish? If one of CCN gave me 50K (seems like Chicago gives that award out sometimes), are CCN the obvious choice over Stanford? Should I be considering UVA/Penn/Cornell more? I most likely want big law, but academia is a possibility.

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