Law School Discussion

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Messages - bros

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11
towelie, lets state the obvious.  you go to penn.  thus, there isn't much competition for jobs because likely everyone in the top 75% will have a job when they graduate.  this is the benefit of going to a school like penn.  therefore you didn't have a very competitive experience in law school and you disagree with everyone in the world saying that law school is competitive.  law school is competitive.  end of story.

in the world outside of top 10, knowing more than the next guy is pretty important.  since bros never once said that you had to lie, cheat and steal to know more than the next guy, i would say that bros is giving pretty good advice...

thank you. you get what i am saying. this advice is not aimed at t14 students, it's aimed at everyone else who goes to a school like mine. it's going to be a different story at any school where the name on your diploma alone all but guarantees you at least a decent job.

12
there is a HUGE f-ing difference between a gunner and a good student. wait until you guys go through your first year. law school is more competitive than you think. if you want to just cruise through LS and bank your future on the fact that someone on LSD says that most really successful lawyers werent at the top of their class, go for it. Enjoy your B minuses. Have fun at OCI.

I'm already done my 1L and I still disagree with what you have to say.

As far as having fun at OCI, I will! Thanks!

 :D you DO go to penn, so im sure OCI will be pretty fun for you. and what part of what i'm saying do you disagree with?

Law school was less competitive than I ever would have imagined - so I disagree with that comment for starters.

I just disagree that you need to be out to be number 1. This would be true at plenty of schools but it does extend past over HYS as you have admitted but did say at first.

wouldnt you say there is still a very present competitive element? i only know my own experience, of course, but i assume that at a school like penn, which is made up of a collection of undoubtedly smart, driven, ambitious individuals, competition would be an unavoidable byproduct of that environment.

law school was far more competitive than i thought it would be (perhaps its just my section?), especially since my school was touted as markedly non-competitive when i was applying/visiting.

13
Law School Rankings / Re: What schools are underrated by US News?
« on: May 15, 2007, 01:04:42 PM »
see my post above

We give aid to get a country to do what we need it to do. Sometimes its quite necessary.

There's that, but it might also be because morality requires it. 

Morality and politics are not a great mix.

Politics is, or at least feigns to be morality.

Couldn't disagree more. There are certainly intersections between the two, but there are many times when the right thing to do from a political point of view is the wrong thing to do from an abstractly moral point of view.

Really?  Isn't every law, or every political action based on some moral code?

no, at least not officially. that's what positivism is.

I don't think I understand what you're saying. There might be a few agents acting with a positivist perspective, but I think that's rare, especially in the current political climate.  And couldn't their actions be reduced to some code to live by?

are you talking about the courts or the legislature? i think that in both arenas, positivist thinking is the rule and not the exception, even if it may appear that all legislators do what they do because they are being compelled by a set of morals.

14
Rejected from FSU (my alma mater tonight)... Not unexpected but waiting so long and having been placed on hold... it f-ing hurts... a lot.

Sorry to hear that   :(

If it helps, law schools don't care at all if you graduated from the undergrad program at the school.  You'd think they'd give a bit of a "home school" preference, but that is not the case.  I got rejected at my alma matter as well, but I knew going into the application cycle that they did not care one bit that I graduated from that same school's undergrad program.

sometimes the fact that you hold a bachelors from a school you are applying to can work AGAINST you.

15
Law School Rankings / Re: What schools are underrated by US News?
« on: May 15, 2007, 12:43:18 PM »
see my post above

We give aid to get a country to do what we need it to do. Sometimes its quite necessary.

There's that, but it might also be because morality requires it. 

Morality and politics are not a great mix.

Politics is, or at least feigns to be morality.

Couldn't disagree more. There are certainly intersections between the two, but there are many times when the right thing to do from a political point of view is the wrong thing to do from an abstractly moral point of view.

Really?  Isn't every law, or every political action based on some moral code?

no, at least not officially. that's what positivism is.

16
Studying for the LSAT / Re: Logic Games Bible
« on: May 15, 2007, 12:33:35 PM »
lgb had a huge impact on my score. i scored 100% on the games section, and the games was my WORST section when i started prepping for the lsat. i think the logic games bible had a lot to do with that. everyone should get it!

17
nccu. they gave me no scholarship money!

18
Law School Rankings / Re: What schools are underrated by US News?
« on: May 15, 2007, 12:13:37 PM »
Stanford is properly ranked at 3.

it's just my personal opinion, but i think stanford should be ranked #1, unequivocally.

19
there is a HUGE f-ing difference between a gunner and a good student. wait until you guys go through your first year. law school is more competitive than you think. if you want to just cruise through LS and bank your future on the fact that someone on LSD says that most really successful lawyers werent at the top of their class, go for it. Enjoy your B minuses. Have fun at OCI.

I'm already done my 1L and I still disagree with what you have to say.

As far as having fun at OCI, I will! Thanks!

 :D you DO go to penn, so im sure OCI will be pretty fun for you. and what part of what i'm saying do you disagree with?

20
to me, doing your best in law school equates to doing anything you can (within the boundaries of the honor code) to distinguish yourself among your classmates.

making an effort to be the best in the class =/= 'cutting down' others.

My point is this: someone who makes an effort to do his best will do no worse than someone who makes an effort to do better than his classmates.  But the former student will be all the better for avoiding hyper-competitive gunnerdom.

I understand grades are important.  But I don't think you should do "ANYTHING you can" to prevent a student from getting a better grade than you.  I think you shouldn't "focus on beating out your classmates" when you could be focused on doing well on your own terms.  And of course, why should your frame your primary goal be "beating out your classmates" when you can just as well frame it as "get the highest grades you can" or "do as well as you possibly can."  In a sense, it's a matter of semantics--but I think it's also a matter of mentally framing your position.  You're likely to be much happier and healthier if you don't focus on competition.  And of course, you're going to be much more enjoyable for your classmates to be around if you're not viewing them as your arch enemies.

tomato, tomato.

btw well done on completely hyperbolizing everything i said and also putting it through an LSD filter so that you actually say almost the same thing as I but making it less harsh-sounding. props, for real.

It's more than just "tomato, tomato."  I think the two mental frames of reference are TOTALLY different and have TOTALLY different effects on your psyche, your relationships, and your law school success. 

I am not saying "almost the same thing as you."  YOU are saying that a successful law school cuts down others at any costs and spends all is time seething over the success of others.  YOU are saying that you should ignore trivialities like "the law" and "the materials" and think about whatever it takes to get ahead of your classmates.  I, on the other hand, think that you should work together and build friendly relationships with your classmates.  I think a successful law student will bend over backwards to help his fellow students do well and succeed.  I think you should ignore the competitive aspects, and instead focus on that pesky "learning" that takes a backseat with your philosophy.

Your hyper-competitive mental frame of reference will lead to envy, jealousy, hatred, and other vile thoughts which can do nothing but make one miserable.  It will also lead to you getting branded as a feminine hygiene product and a gunner by people who could be your friends and colleagues.  Ultimately, it just might get you to do worse because you're too busy thinking of how to sabotage others than to simply do well yourself.


again, you're TOTALLY exaggerating what i am saying and projecting your idea of a gunner, library book stealer, classmate fucker over. i'm not that guy. All i am saying is that in order to get a good grade, you not only have to know the material, but know it better than the other people you are being compared to, and to keep that in mind. by no means should anyone 'cut down' other people or have a xenophobic mentality. i made a lot of good friends in my section; i spent a lot of time helping out other classmates and making sure they understand the material. for instance: i spent a full 3 days helping my friend understand joinder when i could have been doing my own studying. all i am saying is that you cant expect to just know the material pretty well and swing an A- like many people could in undergrad.

furthermore, you go to a school where competition is less important because the quality employers will go VERY deep into the class, so you really have a different experience, don't you?

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