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Messages - plex

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Here is your answer for best chance at a decent job, just looking at these schools:

OCI Statistics for 2007 (provided by lawschoolnumbers)

(US NEWS #131) Chapman:13 (1 NY/11 CA) (very regional CA)
(US NEWS #118) New York Law: 52 (27 NY/6 CA/5 DC) (regional NY)
(US NEWS #131) Pace: 16 (5 NY/1 CA/3 DC) (very regional NY)
(US NEWS #125) Wayne State: 39 (1 NY/1 CA/2 DC) (regional MI, MI is a smaller market)

1L Class sizes (so you know how many you are competing against)

Chapman: 211 (top 7% big/midlaw in CA through OCI)
New York Law: 547 (top 10% big/midlaw NY through OCI)
Pace: 273 (top 5% big/midlaw NY)
Wayne State: 211 (top 18% big/midlaw MI)

Depends on where you want to practice...while OCI is definitely not representative of how most get their jobs, it is a good indication of how many large firms from an area hire there presently. The percentages are based on how many firms there are per students, firms hire 0-4 students, so the percentages could be a good bit bigger (probably double), but for the sake of you having something to compare, I just left them as is.

Once again these schools are all REGIONAL, don't expect to have much of a shot at all outside the school's region.

Also, about transferring, unless you know you have extremely good study skills, or somehow get them fast in law school (this is very unlikely), the school you choose is where you are going to stay, large upward transfers require top 10-15% at least, which means you have to pretty much destroy the other students at studying for finals and test taking.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: Wayne State v. Michigan State
« on: April 24, 2008, 10:01:29 PM »
I enjoy these discussions, there really aren't any real active Michigan lawyers forums (that I know of), so it is fun to be able to have a debate somewhere.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: Wayne State v. Michigan State
« on: April 23, 2008, 09:16:15 PM »
I believe there was only one female candidate for dean at MSU, and she did actually become the dean (with the usual 5-year stint agreement).

Where should I go next fall? / Re: Wayne State v. Michigan State
« on: April 22, 2008, 01:41:28 PM »
The "bulk" of IP faculty? You do realize that MSU has over 20 IP classes (admittedly they rotate them) and Wayne has 4 (which they also rotate)?

IP curriculum is the one thing I can say for certain MSU trumps Wayne at pretty easily. It isn't even a close contest.

Where should I go next fall? / Re: Wayne State v. Michigan State
« on: April 18, 2008, 07:32:46 PM »
If you look at the new lawschoolnumbers charts, you will also be able to get some interesting data from last year.

1L Attrition:  MSU: 5.7% WSU: 8.5%
Net Transfers: MSU: 28   WSU: -9
OCI: MSU: 53 (Up 23.26%, 12 DC/NY/CA) WSU: 39 (Up 11.43%, 4 DC/NY/CA)

General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: Applied sciences + IP
« on: April 17, 2008, 08:29:23 PM »
PLIP usually doesn't require anything more than top 25% at any of the firms I saw posted for prosecution type positions, which ranged from small firms to Vault firms with prosecution groups.

General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: Applied sciences + IP
« on: April 17, 2008, 08:15:56 PM »
I'll answer this with first-hand experience

The answer is, it depends.

1) For the firms that do mostly/all litigation, a technical background isn't really even preferred, it is just a small plus.

2) For firms that have a heavy amount of prosecution or are all prosecution, a technical background is a flat out requirement, and they are usually looking for very specific ones too. It isn't just "preferable." These are the ones who simply have to dip down in order to get the people with backgrounds they need. It just isn't possible for them to find people with these sort of backgrounds just from T14 schools and the top 5% at other schools. That would narrow their selection pool to literally just a couple hundred students each year, spread across the entire country, if that. These firms aren't necessary poor reputation firms either, V100 firms will even relax their law school standards, at least to a small degree.

General Board / Re: Why trash T3 and T4 schools?
« on: April 16, 2008, 12:07:10 AM »
I can only put forth the argument that there are a couple exceptions to those who have the ability to be adaptive enough to be considered to be able to handle "custom" situations rather than "off-the-rack" situations. These exceptions deal more with the students themselves rather than the school curriculum, which is without a doubt, geared towards the majority of students who attend that school who really only have prospects within a small regional area and/or have limited fields of law open to them. The exceptions are older students who have had a successful career but would like to branch out into law (because they seek new challenges) but are constrained, usually because of family to nearby schools. Another exception, is the usual exception, IP. IP students come from a deflated grade curve, and have shown that they have an ability to handle ALL forms of knowledge, making them, truly, the most "custom" student possible.

Getting off on a bit of a tangent, "custom" to me, really means the ability to be adaptable to any situation that a lawyer may encounter in their life, and in order to do that, they need to be able to apply all forms of knowledge. For example, there are plenty of successful lawyers and doctors who earn large amounts of money, yet, when they wish to retire, they cannot because they are not well-rounded enough to handle the subject area of finances properly. As mentioned, this discussion is just about lawyering, but I think if one is really going to talk about "custom," one must realize there is more to even being a lawyer than just being good at analyzing a new issue properly.

General Board / Re: Patent Bar Exam?
« on: April 15, 2008, 11:43:31 PM »
Not in patent prosecution (absolute bar), and not very much in patent litigation. Only bachelor level credits count towards taking the patent bar in any form. Your best bet would be to either do extremely well in law school, so you can get into IP based on a very good law background (thus not needing to take the patent bar) or go back and get a technical undergrad degree, preferably a good one (so you have a useful background and can take the patent bar too).

General Board / Re: What do you feel you learned this year?
« on: April 15, 2008, 04:26:24 PM »
I learned law school is really was pretty surprising after all the hype and the extreme difficulty of the LSAT. It is almost like high school all over again. I still like reading for enjoyment, it is straightforward and the issues aren't buried under mounds of meaningless references and side stories.

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