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Messages - plex

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Right, if you looked at a graph which shows the range of salaries for lawyers, you would notice two very striking, gigantic spikes in the pay range. One is at the 30-60k range, and then the other is at 135-160k range. These ranges (unsurprisingly when you think about it) actually have more to do with the TYPE of law you are practicing rather than the size. The small amount of jobs in the area between these two gigantic spikes are almost always one of the lucrative types of law in a smaller market, almost no one from the less lucrative types of law makes the sort of money on the same scale the more lucrative types of law make.

Unsurprisingly again, large firms tend to a do a lot more of the lucrative types of law rather than the less lucrative types of law, they need a cushion for all the additional costs of being large. They pay well more as a result of the type of law they do rather than their size.

There are only a few (I only know one for sure) of the lucrative types of law that are done by all ranges of sizes of firms and that is IP, even small IP firms are way above the lower spike, because it is a lucrative type that can, at least in one of its major forms, be practiced easily in a small setting.

So if you want something that pays more than something in the 40-50k average range, at least starting out, you need to get into one of the lucrative types of law. The best way to do that is to go to the best school you can get into and do well there.

Good luck.

It is going to be tough, look at attorney/clerk profiles in the region where Cooley is located (where it should have the strongest placement), you will likely see that most firms do not have any Cooley graduates or only one. The fact that Cooley only has 3 OCI firms and a 1L class size of 2000 should also tell you something about how firms view the school, that means many firms right next door to Cooley drive hours to the other local schools to do OCI, the next lowest OCI number in the state is UDM, another tier 4, with 29 OCI firms and a 1L class size of something like 200.

Do the math and if you would really like to get an idea, do the research, it probably won't be pretty. Cooley is honestly almost in its own tier (tier 5), especially when you compare it to the other local schools.

Considering you got a 100% scholarship, I am guessing your LSATs were decent, probably something in the 158-162 range, you can do a heck of a lot better than Cooley if you just wait one year to finish undergrad. I wouldn't have even bothered posting if it weren't obvious you actually do have other options and that Cooley was your only hope, it would be similar to kicking someone when they are down and would be unnecessarily cruel. You have other options, or at least, you will have other options.

Incoming 1Ls / Re: Men: Buying a suit...
« on: April 26, 2008, 01:26:19 AM »
Hmmm, I think I'll just stick with my $150 dark navy nautica suit from Syms that got me a big firm job as a 1L. The firm is business casual though, only a few partners wear suits and ties, most people where just nice dress shirts and pants.

I'll go for a much more expensive suit if I end up at one of the really conservative firms, no need to blow 600-700 more dollars unless necessary.

Haha same, I am avoiding outlining future interests for property right now...

Not really, it just takes good LSAT grades to get into a T14 (of course GPA can be a huge roadblock at the upper end of T14). I would agree with you if we were talking about the top 3 schools, you can't get in without some very good UGPAs.

He probably bases it on how just because one is intelligent, and can do well on a single test, doesn't mean that ALL of them actually have any drive and/or work ethic to become lawyers. All the brains in the world won't help you if you can't get up the will to lift a finger (and the bottom 10% probably fall into this category, maybe not all of them, but lots, enough to justifiably make a blanket statement).

It is amazing how easily really intelligent people can screw up if they are lazy enough.

Strangely that doesn't seem to be it, they have a net transfer rate of +6. It doesn't look like it is connected to transfers.

Cornell is the bad one, it almost has 3rd tier attrition rates...

As to the current topic, Cooley is bad more because of its ridiculous class size, horrible job placement rates, OCI, bar is bad in EVERY category beyond library square footage.

Highest to lowest attrition, percentage, initial 1L class, 1L dropouts
1    Cornell University Click Here To Graph School Data                     7.9%     187    15 (this is bad, 80th highest attrition rate, what is up with this)
2    Duke University Click Here To Graph School Data                     3.5%    205    7
3    University of Pennsylvania Click Here To Graph School Data             2.9%    248    7
4    Northwestern University Click Here To Graph School Data             1.2%    233    3
5    New York University Click Here To Graph School Data                     1.1%    444    5
6    University of California Berkeley Click Here To Graph School Data     1.1%    268    3
7    University of Virginia Click Here To Graph School Data             1.1%    373    4
8    Georgetown University Click Here To Graph School Data                     1.0%    587    6
9    University of Chicago Click Here To Graph School Data                     1.0%    192    2
10    Harvard University Click Here To Graph School Data                     0.5%    557    3
11    Columbia University Click Here To Graph School Data                     0.3%    383    1
12    University of Michigan Ann Arbor Click Here To Graph School Data     0.3%    370    1
13    Stanford University Click Here To Graph School Data                     0.0%    171    0
14    Yale University Click Here To Graph School Data                     0.0%    191    0

I love lawschoolnumbers

(edit, frick beaten the the punch cause I was formatting the stupid copy/paste)

Here is your answer for best chance at a decent job, just looking at these schools:

OCI Statistics for 2007 (provided by lawschoolnumbers)

(US NEWS #131) Chapman:13 (1 NY/11 CA) (very regional CA)
(US NEWS #118) New York Law: 52 (27 NY/6 CA/5 DC) (regional NY)
(US NEWS #131) Pace: 16 (5 NY/1 CA/3 DC) (very regional NY)
(US NEWS #125) Wayne State: 39 (1 NY/1 CA/2 DC) (regional MI, MI is a smaller market)

1L Class sizes (so you know how many you are competing against)

Chapman: 211 (top 7% big/midlaw in CA through OCI)
New York Law: 547 (top 10% big/midlaw NY through OCI)
Pace: 273 (top 5% big/midlaw NY)
Wayne State: 211 (top 18% big/midlaw MI)

Depends on where you want to practice...while OCI is definitely not representative of how most get their jobs, it is a good indication of how many large firms from an area hire there presently. The percentages are based on how many firms there are per students, firms hire 0-4 students, so the percentages could be a good bit bigger (probably double), but for the sake of you having something to compare, I just left them as is.

Once again these schools are all REGIONAL, don't expect to have much of a shot at all outside the school's region.

Also, about transferring, unless you know you have extremely good study skills, or somehow get them fast in law school (this is very unlikely), the school you choose is where you are going to stay, large upward transfers require top 10-15% at least, which means you have to pretty much destroy the other students at studying for finals and test taking.

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