Law School Discussion

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Messages - baileypicks24

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31
The U.S. is home to the greatest, most prolific university system the world has ever known.

Probably true.

UK (and everywhere else) degrees are garbage by comparison.

Probably an exaggeration. But if you're looking at working for a US security firm, a US grad program obviously makes more sense.

32
Dude. What more advice do you need? Practically everyone has advised you not to pursue the JD, based on what you've said. When you say you "dont want to be a lawyer"....that should completely eliminate any desire to pursue a JD. Grad school, not law school, makes a hell of a lot more sense with what you want to do in life.


33
The College Reduction Act and Access Act of 2007 will help you out some if you're going into public service. I think that's what vjm was talking about.

Read up: http://www.law.cuny.edu/admissions/financial-aid/ReductionAct.html

Idaho is in Idaho, but a law degree is a law degree. You probably won't get a biglaw job in NYC with an Idaho degree even if you finished in the top 5% of your class, but finding local-level lower-paying jobs is really more about networking than it is about your degree's prestige. Having almost no debt out of law school means something.

34
General Board / Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« on: July 13, 2008, 07:29:55 PM »
I also don't see how having more schools helps lower legal costs when so many new grads simply can't find work. 

I don't know if that's true. I think grads can find work out there, but just not the high-paying jobs they thought they would get. Think of all the schools unfairly publishing their highly-skewed average graduate salaries. There are tons of non-elite schools out there that report sky-high starting salaries, when in reality, the figure is based off of a tiny percentage of people who bothered to return their surveys.

I mean look, the LSC recently that, "at least 80 percent of the civil legal needs of low-income
Americans are not being met." For a summary of the study, go here: http://www.nlada.org/Civil/Civil_LSC/LSC_Justice_Gap_Report_Overview

So there's work out there....just not the kind of well-compensating work people want, and the kind of work law schools unfairly suggest their grads will get. As Umbrella pointed out, society needs more lawyers. But unfortunately, it's the poorer part of society that need lawyers, and law school graduates find that hard to do with $100k+ in loans.

I will say that I think I just contradicted my previous argument. HA!! Maybe we don't need a cap on law schools? But then where will the lawyers come from to fill this 80% void? Maybe what we really need is for law schools to stop supplying potential law students with misleading average salary data, so the people that apply to schools don't go in thinking they'll score a big-time salary. Subsequently, the people that'll be applying to law school will be those willing to work these lower-paying jobs in the first place. With the modest salary figures, law school will be less appealing, fewer people will apply, and tuition rates will go down.

What do you guys think?

35
General Board / Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« on: July 13, 2008, 05:44:01 PM »
Bailey, aren't you going to the University of Akron, with your other options being T3's with no scholarship money?

Under your own criteria, should you be precluded from going to law school?  Hey, I took a scholarship at a T4, so under my view, you're as ready for law school as I was.  It just seems ironic that you're criticizing sub-par performance leading to sub-par schools when by a lot of people's standards... you're in that exact category.  You seem to be arguing against the very same schools that let you in.

Ah, I think you're referring to my post from a few days back. Just to clarify..I did get into Wake and American, and a few other T2 private schools. I think I talked about it after you posted in my thread, because I didn't include them in my original list from earlier, so perhaps you missed it....But yes, for the sake of argument, let's assume my options were T3s and I had a very low GPA/LSAT. Even then, yes, I don't shy away from my reasoning. I am part of the problem. I mean look, If there was a guy who dreamed of going to med school his entire life, and had the relative equivalent qualifications that I have, he would not be going to med school. Am I right? Whereas his law school equivalent, who dreamed of law school forever, keeping his relative qualification the same, would be going to law school.

And look, having bad grades or a bad lsat doesn't mean you won't become a great lawyer. Not at all. Nor do I think what I'm saying is fair. It isn't. But even if you had life-long dreams of becoming a doctor, the fact is that if you had a very low GPA and MCAT score, you won't be going to med school. Whereas their law school equivalents, with very low GPAs and LSATs, will go to law school. That's simply my point.

Again, I don't think it's fair. In fact, I probably don't agree with it...heh. I mean look, I think there are plenty of people with very low GPAs and low LSATs who go on to become GREAT lawyers. But on the flip side, I'm sure there are people with low GPAs and MCATs who would become great doctors. But guess what? They won't get into med school. Their law school equivalents will. And that's why, perhaps, the legal profession has certain issues that the medical profession doesn't.

This isn't my solid opinion and I'm totally open to changing it, so I hope I'm not coming across as a jerk...ha! I thought a debate about this would be interesting.


36
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Chapman v. NYLS v. Suffolk?
« on: July 13, 2008, 10:36:22 AM »
Making $65k in NYC will basically allow you to maintain a lifestyle the equivalent of making $30k in a city like Charlotte.

Thank you for the useful link.  Since I am living in a NYC area, I can say something about the living expense issue.  According to CNNMONEY.COM, if you live in Bergen county in NJ while working in Manhattan, your $65,000 income would actually be equivalent to $100,980.  That is to say, making $65,000 in Manhattan and living in suburban areas, this allows you to maintain a lifestyle the equivalent of making $100,980 in Manhattan and living in Manhattan.  If you live in Queens, NY, your $65,000 income would be equivalent to $92,110.  Since it takes only about 30-40 minutes to commute from these two areas to Manhattan, working in Manhattan and making $65,000 seems a fine option as long as you do not live in Manhattan.  A lot of people commute in NY.

Yup. There's NYC, and then there's New York State. $65k means a heck of a lot more an hour or two from NYC, than in NYC. I have friends who live in New Jersey and take the train into Penn Station every morning.

37
General Board / Re: Fifth Tier Toilet
« on: July 13, 2008, 10:30:51 AM »
Law schools should be like Med Schools/Business schools. Capped at a certain point.

Bingo. I think it's silly to blame the demand side (the students). It's silly to suggest that "too many people want to be lawyers" is the problem. Sure, everyone wants to go to law school nowadays, and with the few requirements, prerequisites, and little pre-qualification needed to go to law school...what do ya know, everyone's applying to law school. But guess what? Everyone wants to be a doctor, too. I bet many people on this board were pre-med, once upon a time. There are tons of people out there who dream about becoming a doctor (myself included). But guess what? You have to take some pre-med courses. You have to have a solid GPA, and you have to do above-average on the MCATs. In other words, there are more pre-qualification requirements for you to become a doctor. So even though everyone dreams about becoming a doctor, the entry requirements to enter this profession are waaaay higher than the requirements to go to law school. So don't blame the students and their dreams. They aren't the problem. The problem is the law schools that are popping up everywhere, and are allowing people with lower GPAs and lower LSATs to enter the legal profession. And man, what do ya know, there are a bunch of under qualified people entering law school, many of whom end up being unhappy, making measly salaries, and $100k+ in debt. The medical profession filters out these individuals with stricter pre-qualification entry requirements. No matter how much you dreamed of becoming a doctor, if you weren't good enough, and you won't become a doctor. The bar is lower in the legal profession. And that, I believe, is part of the problem.

38
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Chapman v. NYLS v. Suffolk?
« on: July 12, 2008, 12:30:15 PM »
I met a few students at both NYLS and Suffolk and most of them liked their schools.  Their consesus was if I can make top third, I do not have to worry about job.

Two 2nd year students at NYLS told me their class ranks are about 50% and they expected that their starting salary would be about $65,000-$75,000.  It seemed that they did not actually worry about being a jobless after graduate.  I did not actually hear very bad things about NYLS from other sources.  I am currently working at a law firm in Manhattan.  My boss who is a Columbia law graduate told me that law schools (in NYC area) below Fordham are alomst the same in terms of the job prospects.   

One 3rd year student at Suffolk told me that she was still looking for a job because her rank is below average.  However, according to her, even though the Economy is bad, most of her classmates in top 50% of the class obtained jobs even before graduate. 

I think most non-New Yorkers don't realize how irrelevant $65k is in New York. Making $65k in NYC will basically allow you to maintain a lifestyle the equivalent of making $30k in a city like Charlotte. No exaggeration. I caution everyone to factor in the cost of living when comparing average salaries.

http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/costofliving/costofliving.html

39
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Michigan + $49,000, or Chicago?
« on: July 12, 2008, 12:26:08 PM »
Have you visited both schools?  You can't go wrong with either school.  (And sorry, but Chicago is definitely not the Harvard of the Midwest.  Harvard is the Michigan of the East.)

This is reminiscent of the East Coast/West Coast rap battles of the 90s. Heh.

40
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Michigan + $49,000, or Chicago?
« on: July 11, 2008, 11:41:32 AM »
What would we do without conspiracy theorists. Sigh.  ;)

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