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Messages - MachuPicchu

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This question is for any current or former W&M law students, or, alternately, for current/formers who considered W&M but ended up rejecting it. Also, any of our resident LSD know-it-alls. 

I am considering choosing W&M over two or three more highly ranked (non-T14) schools, and the thing that keeps drawing me back in is the much-touted Legal Skills program. I have read that this program is unique to William and Mary and that it has received several ABA awards. It seems to me that, if the program really "works" as indicated,  the (personal& professional growth) benefits of being in a mock-mini-law firm for a few years and practicing on fake clients outweighs the slight hiring/employment edge of schools like GW, the Bostons, Emory, etc.

To clarify, I care more that Legal Skills would help me feel more prepared/adept as a new lawyer than that potential employers would recognize the program's benefits and extend job offers accordingly; I don't expect the latter. 

What are everyone's thoughts on Legal Skills?

Minority and Non-Traditional Law Students / Re: Nontrad forums
« on: June 23, 2007, 01:38:40 PM »
I had a similar experience to the OP--I moved on to the Students/Grads board at the admin's behest and offered some advice on my current/former field (in which I have a graduate degree and have worked for five years) to a rising 2L considering dropping out of law school to pursue a career in the field I am leaving.

My post received several negative responses from current law students who expressed contempt for  OLs (including non-trads) who offer advice to current students. Although they seemed to have overooked the fact that my post centered on job opportunities in my field of expertise, it got me thinking about how much even current law students know about post-graduation issues.

The students with whom I've spoken--certainly the 1Ls and 2Ls, but also a 3L or two-- have indicated that they know little more about some aspects of post-graduation life than they did going in, and that the place to go for some answers is "young" (recent graduate of any age) associates who have passed the bar and worked for a year or more in a market in which you're interested. I have taken this advice to heart by seeking out such people to ask them my questions--in most cases, I noted a marked difference between law students' advice and that of lawyers who have worked at mid-to-large firms for the past few years.

but what would happen if all the white people left?

They were never there to begin with, at least in the places I'm talking about: neighborhoods and even whole suburban localities in which Asian Indians sell groceries to other South Asians and to Caribbeans; Guatemalans buy Central American staples at Asian-owned mini-marts;  Caribbeans run clothing boutiques for Caribbeans and West Africans; Nigerians serve up Nigerian food to other Nigerians and the occasional Ghanain; Arabs own nightclubs catering to Black Americans; and so on and so forth.

Whites are, for the most part, irrelevant in this schema.

If Gore runs again, I'm running screaming for the hills.

Oh, and on a serious but no less truthful note: does anyone know the demographics of registered voters? Aren't they mostly White males? I have trouble believing that White males will vote in large numbers for either a female candidate (Clinton) or one with some (proven) non-European ancestry, no matter how adept either one is. Sad, but possibly true.

General Off-Topic Board / Re: Recommend a movie
« on: June 04, 2007, 05:29:12 PM »
Weekend at Bernie's. Oh, and Soylent Green. It's made out of people, you know.

General Off-Topic Board / Re: eHarmony sued for excluding gays
« on: June 04, 2007, 05:28:13 PM »

I took a German class once, and all of the students had to construct a sentence in the pattern, "I am ____."  One of my friends did, in fact, say, "I am a cucumber."

subtle JFK trolling

I am a jelly doughnut.  And a teacake.

This word, more than any other, conjures indecently happy thoughts. Except, perhaps, for *lemon cake* (those of you who accepted it from goalie's fingertips know of what I speak...)


Well, whites are in possession of most of the resources, so it's a legit question to ask. Certainly an area can prosper without whites in it, but at the current state of affairs, it is less likely to.

_____________________________ _____________________________ _____________________________ _________

If the only resource you mean is financial, I don't think this is correct (proportion-wise). I've read stats that say the highest earners AND most educated AND highest proportions of small business owners in U.S. are Asian, specifically South Asian if I remember correctly. There are entire self-contained chunks of Chicago's suburbs, D.C.'s suburbs, and I'm sure areas of other major cities that are almost exclusively owned/run both by and for immigrants of non-European ancestry, and I'm not talking about Chinatowns or other East Asian-towns, which, given those groups's long histories in the U.S., are old hat and should come as no surprise.

Now, political power is a very important resource, in which case you would be correct in saying non-Euros don't have a big share in that.  

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Texas v. WUSTL v. UMN v. GW (WL)
« on: June 04, 2007, 04:50:44 PM »
Christianlawyer, thanks for coming on this board. Glad to hear GW 's working out for you, if not for your classmates. Hope you post again.

Incoming 1Ls / Re: Desperate for input!!!
« on: June 04, 2007, 10:01:10 AM »
Alamo's point about learning to conquer exam nerves is duly noted. However, I am concerned that in this case, re-taking could spell disaster. So let's say the applicant takes a Testmasters course, drives himself with practice problems, scores high (say, 168+) on practice tests, and then is faced with the exam itself and is just flummoxed. From what the OP stated, this scenario is highly likely. I think it will be pretty damning if adcomms are looking over this young man's file and seeing an LSAT score that improved only two or three points or, horrors, even decreased due to nerves.

If I were an AdComm, and I saw someone go from a 161 to a 163 or 164, I would think,  "Two tries and he can't break into the latter 160's. He is thus solidly 162/163 material."

So, while I agree that waiting to re-take the LSAT can be a good strategy for some people, I'd say it can also be limiting for some people who just have trouble with standardized exams.

You know, he might consider taking a year off anyway only (while NOT retaking the LSAT), taking an interesting or noteworthy job such as working for a charity or non-profit, or teaching English overseas, or perhaps learning another language and using it to volunteer with immigrants.



If I were making this decision (and, in fact, I just made such a decision) I would choose the school at which you will accumulate the least amount of debt that is also located in an area in which you could see yourself practicing for 3-5 years after graduation.   Case is a fine school, no doubt about it, but I'd imagine that it is every bit as regional as every other non-top 20-ish school.  Does Case have a strong alumni base in the pacific northwest?  Does it place well in Seattle, Portland, etc?  These are questions you will probably want to answer before making a final decision.

Just my two cents...

This is very good advice. The way I see it, once you are out of T14 and in some cases T20, you have to really start thinking in terms of comparing regions or cities, not school "names" (whatever amorphous entity that is). In reality, Case Western Reserve, like most other T1, T2, T3, and T4 schools, does not have powerful tentacles that can reach across regions into several states. This is a huge country, with thousands of localities, legal markets, and little niches known only to people within a few hundred mile radius.

Amass as much numerical evidence as you can on the numbers of Case and Gonzaga grads working in the regions or cities you may be interested in working in three years' time. (not forever, but, say, between 3 and 5 years after graduation). The best way I have found is to do a Martindale search (PM me if you need help) and look at self-reported employment (albeit often flawed) and OCI stats, but if anyone knows of other options, post them.

If you find that, as I suspect, Case does not reign outside of Ohio and possibly the states that border it, and if you are not satisfied with living in these places 3-5 years after graduation, and if Gonzaga's locale is a place you'd wanna be for that long, you have your answer.

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