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Messages - brown

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11
General Off-Topic Board / Re: Is abortion safer than childbirth?
« on: April 13, 2007, 12:01:57 AM »
Life is hell.  Nonexistence is arguably more pleasant than existence even in the best of circumstances. 

clearly, you don't believe that.

Clearly?  False.  I do believe that.  What's your evidence to the contrary?

My evidence is that you haven't killed yourself.  If you really believed it, you'd be gone by now.

False.

1.  See "arguably."
2.  Still doesn't follow.  Why not?  Because (a) it would be painful (and there is no guarantee of success--this is often the case, and tends to be disastrous) and (b) nonexistence can't be isolated (i.e. because I exist my future nonexistence through suicide, even if qualifying as nonexistence, would cause suffering for people I don't care to cause to suffer).

1. Well, if you really want to emphasize "arguably", then you're not saying much since most things are arguable.

2. Then you're back to my point where, at best, you can only decide that for yourself.

12
General Off-Topic Board / Re: Is abortion safer than childbirth?
« on: April 12, 2007, 11:52:30 PM »
Life is hell.  Nonexistence is arguably more pleasant than existence even in the best of circumstances. 

clearly, you don't believe that.

Clearly?  False.  I do believe that.  What's your evidence to the contrary?



Here's the difference:  For a very long time, many, many fetuses have been viable since day one (in the womb).  This is the case today.  I'm not aware of any current asexual human reproduction.

Cite one instance that a viable baby was born after one day. 

Why?

Because you said many fetuses have been viable since day one.

Yes, in the womb (is what I said).

That's not what viability means.

1. My evidence is that you haven't killed yourself.  If you really believed it, you'd be gone by now.

2. The phrase, "viable outside the womb" is a used quite often.  I don't see why I can't say a fetus is viable inside the womb.

13
General Off-Topic Board / Re: Is abortion safer than childbirth?
« on: April 12, 2007, 11:48:35 PM »
To what extent, then, do you believe it is our moral duty to devote resources to pushing independent fetal viability earlier in the pregnancy?  Should we work toward asexual reproduction?  Is anything less murder?

Hmmm...I wish we could have this conversation over coffee.  I'll just say that our moral duty is to take care that we don't unjustly kill people.

What is a just killing?

Or a person, for that matter.

Like I said, coffee.

14
General Off-Topic Board / Re: Is abortion safer than childbirth?
« on: April 12, 2007, 11:46:22 PM »
Here's the difference:  For a very long time, many, many fetuses have been viable since day one (in the womb).  This is the case today.  I'm not aware of any current asexual human reproduction.

Cite one instance that a viable baby was born after one day. 

Why?

Because you said many fetuses have been viable since day one.

Yes, in the womb (is what I said).

15
General Off-Topic Board / Re: Is abortion safer than childbirth?
« on: April 12, 2007, 11:45:33 PM »
Life is hell.  Nonexistence is arguably more pleasant than existence even in the best of circumstances. 

clearly, you don't believe that.

16
General Off-Topic Board / Re: Is abortion safer than childbirth?
« on: April 12, 2007, 11:43:37 PM »
Here's the difference:  For a very long time, many, many fetuses have been viable since day one (in the womb).  This is the case today.  I'm not aware of any current asexual human reproduction.

Cite one instance that a viable baby was born after one day. 

Why?

17
General Off-Topic Board / Re: Is abortion safer than childbirth?
« on: April 12, 2007, 11:42:39 PM »
To what extent, then, do you believe it is our moral duty to devote resources to pushing independent fetal viability earlier in the pregnancy?  Should we work toward asexual reproduction?  Is anything less murder?

Hmmm...I wish we could have this conversation over coffee.  I'll just say that our moral duty is to take care that we don't unjustly kill people.

18
General Off-Topic Board / Re: Is abortion safer than childbirth?
« on: April 12, 2007, 11:39:35 PM »
Sperm is not a developing human life.   An egg is not a developing human life.

A fetus, like a sperm or an egg, is a potential human life.  What's the point of this framing game?

I disagree.

Didn't want to touch it, but yes, there are worse things than not existing.

I think you can only decide that for your own life.

You said that death is worse than these consequences.  If you can say that, I don't see why I can't say that these consequences are in fact worse than death.

You're close to making a point, however.

Well, from a legal standpoint, anything else is a subset of death.

19
General Off-Topic Board / Re: Is abortion safer than childbirth?
« on: April 12, 2007, 11:37:28 PM »
I heard about this story when it aired.  Every single day the doctors had to decide whether or not to abandon the baby as hopeless.  It's not a normal outcome in any sense.

Yet.  But as technology advances...

Total regression:  sperm and egg are viable; masturbation and menstrual cycle are murder.

Sperm is not a developing human life.   An egg is not a developing human life.

Combine the two bolded statements.  One day, I may have children through an asexual process... you know... as technology advances.

Here's the difference:  For a very long time, many, many fetuses have been viable since day one (in the womb).  This is the case today.  I'm not aware of any current asexual human reproduction.

20
General Off-Topic Board / Re: Is abortion safer than childbirth?
« on: April 12, 2007, 11:32:53 PM »
I would also add that the law can and often does define the unlawful killing of a fetus as homicide while still not defining the fetus as a human being.

The new record is 21 weeks:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17304274/site/newsweek/

As science gets better, fetuses start turning into people.

Indeed, 21 weeks is a bit over half a pregnancy; now what are the potentially horrible side effects of being born that premature?  How many babies survive when born that premature?

1. The side effects are not as bad as being dead.

2. This was the first baby and not likely the last.

I disagree.

So, what class of people, now living, do you suggest we exterminate?

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