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Messages - struggles

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1
I'm looking for a place in the bay area and we are trying to decide whether to pinch pennies or find a place that meets our needs. We could live in a small apartment and save a couple hundred a month in rent and utilities or go for the house with the yard, garage, w/d and living space that will make us more comfortable for the next 3 years. Its probably at difference of around $12-15K in debt after its all said and done. What are your plans for living arrangments?

2
lets not blame the prisons, lets not blame society, lets blame the blacks, latinos or whites or WHOEVER

MAKES THE FREE CHOICE TO COMMIT CRIME AND NOT STUDY FOR LSAT!

and jillybean said "in sports race doesnt matter because owners are just trying to get the "best" teams"

well, this should apply everywhere.  our country should have the best lawyers and dammnit, if blacks dont qualify, then there wont be any!    omg this is ridiculous! 
also, there are no black swimmers on the swim team- why? because none qualified!!! tell THAT to al sharpton!

you totally missed the point.  ::)

3
This thread jumped from 8 pages to 16 in a matter of hours and I haven't been able to read all of it as of yet (long hours at work!!)...so I'm a little lost...therefore, suffice to say, I'm not offended.

4
I don't think people who haven't worked very hard at educating themselves deserve my spot, and I don't particularly care what race they are. 

Struggles would be disappointed in you for minimizing the mountains he's climbed.

Not exactly, how many mountains had he climbed if he didn't work very hard at educating himself? he didn't climb that one, which is a big one.

5
Please allow me to preface my comments by explaining that I am going to play the role of the Devil's Advocate in this post, so I don't want anyone trying to draw the conclusion that my actual opinions are represented here.  I simply want to bring up some things for people to think about.  I do think, however, that it is important for readers to know that I support AA to some degree, though I think it is a detestable practice.  (Sort of like my opinion that we have the worst government in the world, except for all the others.)


I'm sure I will put my foot in my mouth at least several times, so I might as well get started.  

First, I noticed quite a few posts in this thread by (purportedly) minorities (including the OP) who have less than impressive grammar.  While I completely understand the factors that could possibly have led to that fact, and I also understand that bad grammar is not in any way limited to minorities, I would like you to consider a premise for the sake of argument.  

If it is true that URM's have a statistically higher chance of having bad grammar (and I'm not saying it is true, I am simply making an argument), and they are let into law school in greater numbers because of AA, is it not also true that the quality of lawyers (who rely on the written and spoken word for much of the work they produce) will decline?  In a field where so much importance is placed on the precise construction of arguments, wouldn't the overall quality of the work produced by sub-standard writers be inherently inferior?

Further, even if it were not true that substantive mistakes would occur more frequently, would it not be true that arbiters reading obvious grammatical and spelling errors in legal documents presented to them would be (consciously or subconsciously) likely to be prejudiced against the client being represented?

Again, I am not trying to argue that all minorities have bad grammar and spelling.  If there is any correlation at all, it would almost certainly be between students at substandard schools and bad grammar/spelling.  I am not even making an argument based on my opinions.  I am just saying that there are other things to consider when you make an argument that URM's should be given preferential treatment when being considered for admission to law school.  If you are making the argument that AA does not have a detrimental effect on society, remember that you cannot possibly know or recognize the effects of AA (and neither, by the way, can politicians).  Just because you can't see all of the possible consequences of something doesn't mean they don't exist.    

Interesting that you pointed this out. Ever heard of the idea of cultural capital and lingusitic capital?? Well as a URM I can tell you that my vocab and grammar is severly limited compared with, forgive me for generalizing "white America," But, its something I have to deal with, and its a big obstical for me in many ways.

6
What are the details about this SF LSD meeting?

7
Wow is everything you don't agree with a flame?  ???

8
I think he's saying that you're oversimplifying people into two categories: 1) rich and white; 2) poor and black.

Right - that's exactly what I'm saying. The reason I'm calling your posts flame, struggle, is that you present an incredibly skewed and overly simplistic view of law school admissions and insist that it's right. You can't seriously believe it's that simple.

Oh, Ok. Ouch, yes I see your point. It was an extreme oversimplification. I think I feel into that old "go to the extremes to make or break your point." But, yes your correct it was very simplistic and I do understand thats things are not truly that simple.  Also, I think I don't quite have a grasp on what this board calls a "flame."

But, there's more to my argument then just those two extremes.

Reading over your posts, it seems like some of what you're saying is sarcasm, or taking a position you don't really have.  I didn't notice at first, but after Ersatz pointed it out, most of your posts seem to be subtly sarcastic, and sometimes they're not so subtle.  That's what he means by flame.  Of course it's possible you know exactly what flame means, and you're just messing around.

Lol, well I had a general idea what a flame was, but then I didn't see what he talking about at first and so I thought maybe I just didn't have the right grasp of it. And yes, there's been a bit of sarcasm here and there in my posts. I think its because this is a hot button issue for me, as I have strong beliefs regarding race, class and equality that I know differ from that of the majority.

9
I think he's saying that you're oversimplifying people into two categories: 1) rich and white; 2) poor and black.

Right - that's exactly what I'm saying. The reason I'm calling your posts flame, struggle, is that you present an incredibly skewed and overly simplistic view of law school admissions and insist that it's right. You can't seriously believe it's that simple.

Oh, Ok. Ouch, yes I see your point. It was an extreme oversimplification. I think I feel into that old "go to the extremes to make or break your point." But, yes your correct it was very simplistic and I do understand thats things are not truly that simple.  Also, I think I don't quite have a grasp on what this board calls a "flame."

But, there's more to my argument then just those two extremes.

10
Well, from my point of view there's no true detriment cause by AA. I believe in equality and for things to get closer to equal some get pulled back and some get pushed up. Which, is not entirely "fair" if your not the one reaping the benefits. However, there's a greater good here. Yes, is unfair if some over priveledged wealhty white kid gets pushed out of their spot in school X (if that's even the reality of what happens, and I'm not saying it is). But, that poor black kid who climbed mountains to get there is just as deserving of the spot, even if that means a few less points on the LSAT. If the LSAT can even be used as a good measurement or predictor of a minorities qualifications to go to law school. It will take years and years to change society into one that brings up equal black and whites in terms of education. And small steps along the way help. Its not so much an individual thing, that white kid vs that black kid. Its more a macro picture, there's no detriment to society for giving that URM an extra push, but there's possibly a detriment to that losing idividual....In fact, the more and more URMs that get in push us somewhere closer to a more equal society. Whats on the other side of that coin? there's a few less spot for whites? doesn't seem like much detriment to me.

This is starting to come across as an elaborate flame. Nice strawman there - you got "over priviledged wealhty white kid" on one side and "the poor black kid who climbed mountains to get there" on the other. Are you serious with this?

I'm sorry, but I don't get where you are coming from. Yes I was serious in that scenero I outlined. Because you see in society, the "over priviledge, wealthy white kid" does get into law school often very easily. And if a poor black kid made it to the same spot, he definately had to climb over moutains to get there. So I'm sorry, but I don't see what you view as a flame, thats the reality of it..but please do explain your position because I don't see it.

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