# Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
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### Messages - ericptk2000

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##### Pennsylvania State / Re: Class of 2010
« on: May 11, 2007, 01:40:30 PM »
Anyone know how the grade curve works here?

" I can't tell you the exact number because it changes each year, but the handbook states it is 2.9 - 3.1.  It breaks down like this:

Expect 15% A and A-.
Expect 15% C+ and below.
Expect 3-7% D and below.
Half are B+ to B-

Rougly 5 percent fail."

Seems like that is missing 8-12%?

Yep.  More than half have B- to B+, and roughly 5 to 7% will fail.  The thing about PSU-DSL is that the curve is "suggested grading norms."  They are by no means set in stone.  The missing 8 to 12% is wiggle room for faculty to hand out more Bs or more Cs.  They rarely ever go over the A mark, just so you know.  As a matter of fact, more will go under 15% As and give 5 to 10% As.  My crim pro class was a great example, I managed to pull off an A (I have no idea how).  My prof came to congratulate me when he got the grade report.  That was when he informed me only 2 people got As, out of 75 students.  Obviously, he felt overall the class didn't deserve lots of As, so he handed out more Bs.

Very impressive!!!  I would love to know how you studied and outlined for the class.

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##### Pennsylvania State / Re: Class of 2010
« on: May 09, 2007, 06:35:24 PM »
Anyone know how the grade curve works here?

" I can't tell you the exact number because it changes each year, but the handbook states it is 2.9 - 3.1.  It breaks down like this:

Expect 15% A and A-.
Expect 15% C+ and below.
Expect 3-7% D and below.
Half are B+ to B-

Rougly 5 percent fail."

Seems like that is missing 8-12%?

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##### General Board / Re: Wayne (50% tuition) v. MSU (Full ride)
« on: April 29, 2007, 12:04:24 AM »
Well, Gosh, now that Wayne got downgraded to T4 because of stupid f**ckhead dean and the morons in the career services office, I'd say MSU.

BUT Wayne is a better school. The only reason we're not ranked higher than MSU is because those dipshits didn't bother calling last year's graduating class to see if they got jobs. I am f**cking furious about that *&^%.

Detroit is a shithole, but East Lansing is too. If you want a higher chance of getting a job, I'd say go to Wayne.

Hey Lech,

I honestly don't think that MSU students will be at any serious disadvantage in terms of jobs.  Certainly, if you want to get into a downtown firm, you may benefit by being at Wayne.  However, I do not think that it any longer makes that much of a difference.  Furthermore, I think MSU is rising fast since DCL moved there and will continue to move up.  Either way, sorry about the ranking drop.  I did my undergrad and am finishing my grad degree at Wayne right now and very seriously contemplated Wayne and think it is a good school, so I hate to see it drop. I really wouldn't worry too much about the rank dropping, because employers in the area already know that Wayne is a good school.

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##### General Board / Re: Anyone do law preview?
« on: April 05, 2007, 02:28:50 PM »
Why did this board get so heated and side tracked.  I just want to know from those who did the law preview class whether or not it is worth the money.  Would it give me even a slight advantage that I would not get by reading PLSII and Law School Confidential.  Again, I am more concerned about keeping my full tuition scholarship than spending the 1,000-2,000 even if it is a slight advantage.  I don't want the class to simply tell me law school is a lot of work and that it is difficult.  However, if the class is able to explain how to work more efficiently and what pitfalls I should avoid then I think in my particular case it might be worth it.  If you would rather PM me, that is fine.  Thanks for the help.

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##### General Board / Re: Anyone do law preview?
« on: April 05, 2007, 10:14:31 AM »
You could also spend \$4.00 + media mail shipping for "Law School Confidential" and get both an overview of 1L courses, the 1L job search, and different opinions from both the author and students on study techniques that worked well.

If you're really feeling ambitious, you can go to the library or a book store, see if they have the Examples and Explanations series for 1L courses (Contracts, Civil Procedure, Torts, Constitutional Law, Property, Criminal Law), and sit down with them.  Read through the table of contents, maybe skim a few chapters here and there, and get a feel for the subjects and some of the terminology.  That costs you nothing.

Your money is better saved, since law school is expensive enough as it is without companies trying to take advantage of panicked students.

And for the record, NONE of the students I know who did well at my school took a Law Preview course (doesn't mean there aren't any - I don't know for sure everyone who is in the top of my class, but those I do know, didn't take one - neither did I, for that matter).

Any advantage you might get is very short-lived, as the learning curve is steep.  Is \$1000 worth it for a 3 or so week advantage?  (and that's assuming it will take your classmates 3 weeks to get their own overview by reading through their syllabus, flipping through the table of contents of the casebook, and looking at supplements).

I don't think that people about to make a 100K+ dollar investment ought to flinch at one thousand dollars if it can be of help to them.

What people at the top of your class do is irrelevant. Perhaps if you had taken the course (or anyone else in your class) you'd be ahead of all of those lazy unprepared people (I exaggerate to make a point). The point is that without knowing every person in your class and whether they took the course or not, it's impossible to answer the OP's question about the effectiveness of the course. Also, your class is just one of many . . . not representative.

The E & E idea is a great alternative. I'm reading them right now. They are pretty detailed, and I don't get a lot of what I'm reading cuz I'm going too fast, but still . . . if you're super ambitious (or anxious) this may be your ticket. I just think it's funny that people who obviously took preparation seriously their whole life, suddenly think it is irrational when approaching the most important part of establishing their career.

I may be wrong or naive, but I think it is unrealistic to go through law school wanting to do well and not compare yourself to your friend and everyone else for that matter.  I could absolutely see not comparing yourself if there was no curve, but the fact of the matter is that there is a curve and if you want to do well then you need to rise above others.  I don't mean to say that you should think about it non-stop, but I also think that comparing ourselves to others is natural.  This rings even more true in an ultra competetive environment where it will impact your career, salary, location, and quite possibly your amount of debt.

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##### General Board / Re: Anyone do law preview?
« on: April 04, 2007, 09:18:18 PM »
Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all of the advice so far.  I knew there would be a lot of disagreement between those who have taken the prep week and those who haven't.  I am very interested in hearing what everyone thinks on this subject who has taken the prep week. I have read PLS II and most of law school confidential and considering Law Preview.  I have a full ride and don't mind spending an extra 1,000-2,000 if it will ensure that I keep my scholarship.  I appreciate all your comments.

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##### General Board / Re: Anyone do law preview?
« on: April 03, 2007, 07:39:05 PM »
Thanks for your input.  Anyone else do law preview? Is it worth the money that you spend?

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##### General Board / Anyone do law preview?
« on: April 03, 2007, 10:49:57 AM »
I was wondering whether law preview was worth the money?  I want to hear your thoughts from those of you who did the 1 week training.  You can PM me if you would prefer.

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##### General Board / Re: Honest Scholarship Answers
« on: April 01, 2007, 11:32:04 PM »
Hey One time,

Thank you very much.  I couldn't even get straight answers from the administration.  The Dean of Student's told me "Wow, I never thought to keep the stats of those who lose their scholarships", like I am the first student EVER to wonder how many students lose their scholarship.  This process is daunting because I have no problem going to a school that is 3rd tier even getting into lower first tier or upper 2nd, because I want to do government law.  However, I don't want to pay 50,000 at the school because I lost my scholarship and get stuck at the lower scholarship.  It seems that my family and friends don't understand this no matter how many times I tell them about the curve.

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##### General Board / Re: Honest Scholarship Answers
« on: April 01, 2007, 05:34:17 PM »
I am hoping someone can help me.  I have been giving a full tuition scholarship to Michigan State University and I really want to know how many people lose it after the first year.  The terms of the scholarship is a 3.0 GPA, and they tell me they curve at a 2.91 or so and therefore it should be easy to keep.  The administration and random students at open house say only about 20-30% lose their scholarship.  However, the Princeton Review Law School book says that student's say that they do the "bait and switch" tactic and as few as 1 in 5 actually keep their scholarship.

How do I figure out what is true?  I want to trust the school and students, but should I actually trust the princeton review student response?  Is there any way I can find out for sure?

That doesn't make sense.  How can so many people lose their scholarship if they curve that high?  That would mean that 80% of scholarship recipients earn grades which fall below the curve's mean.  Ironically, scholarships are given to the students who show the most promise and potential for succes . . .  or who have dark skin tones.

With the little reference you give to the PR book, I would have to defer to the school at this point.  Considering that MSU curves on a 2.9, you need to be ahead of the pack, but you don't need to blow them away.

Also, keep in mind that most scholarship recipients have their grades reviewed at the end of the academic year; thus, if you do average in your first semester, that doesn't necessarily preclude you from keeping your scholarship.

Bottom line:  Unless there are more details you can find which support the PR book, I'd defer to admissions; the statistics just don't make sense.

That is a good point about Princeton Review not making sense in this case.  However, it is also quite suprising that 30% of the students would lose their scholarships with a 3.0 GPA minimum if the class curve is a 2.94.  So that essentially means that 30% of the top applicants (because they achieved this scholarship) lose that scholarship because they end up in the bottom half of the class.  Does this seem plausible?  Could it just be a crazy curve with like 85% of the students getting a B- or C+ or with a crazy distribution around the median?

Any help figuring this out is greatly appreciated.

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