Law School Discussion

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Messages - TruOne

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21
"My Professor said that he takes participation into account when grading, what can I do to get a high participation grade?"


Absolutely nothing, your Professor was lying to you the same way your Parents lied when they said Santa was going to bring you a gift if you were naughty.

Participation is very similar to the ABA's requirement of attendance: After your first year, you soon recognize that going to class is pointless and that you'd be much better off just reading the material and teaching yourself.

However, the Law School could not justify your Professor's 6-figure salary if hardly anybody came to class (unless he was tenure) so he has to make up rules that make you fear for a lesser grade unless you are in class everyday, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed.

Can you get an "A" if you never raise your hand and ask a question? Yes

Can you get an "A" if you never answer a question when called upon? Yes

22
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: What should I do after UG?
« on: June 21, 2009, 06:06:49 PM »
I laughed when I read this part:

I haven't taken the LSAT yet but I will probably score at least 170, knock on wood

Unless you have taken the actual LSAT and gotten a REAL SCORE, then you have no clue what your actual LSAT score is going to be.

I know, I know, you've taken practice exams and you have scored very high, but scoring high means nothing compared to your FINAL score.

The best thing you can do right now is practice practice practice so that you can actually get a high LSAT score. If not, then t14's won't care if you were reading to blind children in Uganda for a year.

23

Yea Expert Learning is great in my opinion. Who knew all A students weren't born a genious lol. As far as preping for the summer, I am obviously an 0L and dont have much authority to make statements like this, but when I first started everyone told me there is nothing you can do to prep for school in the summer. But now after going half way through this program, I will have to say I have to disagree. I am only half way done and I am already learning how to brief cases; spot issues; synthesize cases; learning how to utilize lexis and westlaw; writing legal memos; taking hypo exams and evaluating the answers and etc. I just dont know how that can not be considered a MAJOR advantage over some one who did not have some idea of these things on day one. But who knwos maybe this looking back this will be one of my dumb thing I said as an 0L

When people say that you can't prepare for Law School as a 0L, they mean that you can't do anything during the summer that will give you an advantage over your classmates during the summer.

By the time you get to exams in December, EVERYBODY will know how to brief a case, outline, use lexis/westlaw, spot issues and all that stuff. But everybody won't get an A on the exam because it is one thing to take an exam when you are only being graded objectively, it is completely different when your essay grade depends on how 200+ other eually intelligent students wrote at the same time on the same issues.

I bet a Law School would be a lot different for smart people if there were no curve.

24
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: Life as a Summer Associate
« on: June 16, 2009, 09:14:47 PM »
LOL  yeah that definitely happens sometimes.  Although, I wouldn't TOTALLY rule out the prospect of real live substantive work going to summer associates. 

For example, I was just in a fellow associate's office today and he was on the phone with a client and he asked the client "do you want me to do this, or would you prefer that I pass this off to a summer to keep the cost down?"

I'm not sure what exactly the assignment entailed, but I got the sense that it was something that was not too major yet major enough for an associate to have to do it himself if need be.  So summers absolutely do get meaningful assignments, they just tend to be shorter in nature.

I think one of the most substantive things I got to do by myself as a SA was drafting an Affidavit from the witness' actual statement.

I was krunk to draft it and have the Sr. Associate approve it b/c both parties were gettin' ready to go to trial and my affidavit would've been considered as testimony that might come up in trial. . . AND YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED?????
















Both sides agreed to settle in arbitration. You know what happened to my Toyota-Turning Point Affidavit that was oh-so important to the litigation? The opposing client took one look at it, tossed it to the side and went right back to cussin' out our client cuz he was a "no good rotten scoundrel!"

25
@Truone, on Pennoyer v. Neff, you are right.

I am currently in this CLEO summer pre law program that preps you for law school. It is basically 3 classes held everyday of the week for the summer which are taught like a regular law school class, with crazy ass readings and all that. Anyways, we just had to read Pennoyer v. Neff about a week ago, and the professor made a point of trying to use "socratic method to the max in order to prepare us for whats ahead" and guess who the lucky student was? yours truly lol. I mean I did alright but I quickly realized no matter how much stuff or heads up you guys give us on here, it is a different ball game when you actually going through it. Its like I read the case, briefed it and thought I got the main point. Then, I get to class and its like I missed something or focused on the issue within the issue instead of the main issue or something crazy lol, you never win with these people lol. But nobody told me how stimulating law school is, yes I hate havin to sleep only 5 to 6 hours most of the night, but I love it the readings, classes, and discussions with my classmates..

I know this is like kiddie stuff to you guys by now, but what do you think? Too early to be talking about I love it?l

Sounds like you have the makings of a good law student.

I loved the stimulating academic environment that law school provides.  I think our education is like no other graduate or professional school. You're forced to think about things on several different levels, going back and forth between facts, law, and policy.

It's never to early to be passionate about the law.  Keep that going throughout your 3 years and you will do well.



WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!
Future Law Professors, dead ahead!

26
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: Life as a Summer Associate
« on: June 15, 2009, 04:09:50 PM »
Doc review as a summer?  I should hope not...run away from that job.

2Ls get the jobs typically through on-campus interviews.  1Ls typically blanket firms with resumes and participate in a limited OCI.

Offers come (you hope) at the end of the summer...method varies by firm.



No doubt, if I had to do doc review as a summer associate I would have contemplated jumping out the window or something.

I'm just glad to see that summer associates even still EXIST in this economy.    Sheesh.

When you got there as a 1L, what were your typical assignments?

How different was your first 6 months comapred to when you were a SA?


Aw man, like almost night and day damn near.

We give summer associates stuff like research memo's and other short term stuff that they can complete within a few days or weeks.  When you become an associate you become part of cases (or deals on the transaction side) that last for many months, sometimes years.  Plus there's a noticeable attitude difference I think.  As a summer associate, nobody expects you to know anything.  Everybody's all smiles and "hey no problem's"  and "it's ok's" and what not.  When you are an Associate people expect you to know some sh!t, meet deadlines, utilize resources, be available on blackberry 24/7, etc.  In other words, they treat you like a professional.
Welp, this summer we actually have to know poo and make sure our assignments are 100% on point...no room for error  :-\

Sigh...


Oh yeah, assignments always have to be 100% on point.  That's a given.  Grammar, citation, spelling, shephardizing, etc.

Now being expected to know poo (like where to file a motion in NY state court for a transfer of venue or what kind of documents to ask for in a document request of a fortune 500 company for a trademark infringement case), now that's a higher than normal standard I suppose.  I would hope they're not expecting you guys to know something like that as summers.

I would expect a summer to know the substantive law that you learned in class, like what are the elements of negligence, how do we prove fraud in the inducement, was there a valid contract here, was it breached, etc.

So I guess when I say be expected to know poo, I mean beyond the substantive law.  I'm talking about knowing the actual practice of law, which ironically they don't teach us in law school.  Go figure.

I doubt any Partner or Associate is giving any substantive work to a Summer Associate. Of course the person assigning the work will hype it up. "This is really important because needs an answer by next Thursday!"

But at the end of the day, what firm is really going to say, "Yeah, that Memo you wrote really was pointless. I was already aware of the law, I just was curious about some obscure point. Toss it in my chair and I'll take a look at it later when I take a bathroom break."


27
Yeah that's a good point.  I just can't see myself selling out like that.

LOL, yeah I remember becoming a "pre-law" student for the sole purpose of getting into law school thinking it would help.

I remember when I was in High School a College Admissions officer came to speak to us about a particular school. Somebody asked about why the brochure didn't mention anything bout a "Pre-law" major:

Student: Does your school have a Pre-law major?
Add: Well, there technically is no such thing as Pre-law
Student: Yes there is, University of State has a Pre-law Major.
Add: No, seriously, there is no such thing as Pre-law. You can major in whatever you want.
Student: But what if we want to prepare for law school?
Add: I'm trying to tell you that you can major in whatever you want and go to law school



This little debate went on for about 5 min until the officer finally moved on to a new subject.

I think schools should stop creating those "Minors" or "Degree tracks" because it does nothing but help turn otherwise regular undergrads into pretentious undergrads.

28
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: Law Preview Prep Course
« on: June 09, 2009, 03:47:49 PM »
All of these are tcr

29

He can't be serious.

Have your average "Pre Law" College Grad. (A joke within itself) ready Pennoyer vs. Neff a month b4 law school and then have someone read it a month after law school.

You'll get completely different responses.


Word.  And unfortunately he is quite serious...hence the hold up in my getting published.   >:( >:(

But yeah in preparing the book, I encountered (trust me encountered is the right word to descibe the experience) my briefs that I did during Orientation a few days before law school started.  Then I also came across my briefs a few weeks in.  Both were hilariously horrible, now, looking back on it.  But the second batch was a vast improvement. 

I guess his method will make the book available to a "wider" audience since they'll be able to say that it gives study tips for "Pre-Law students" (God I  hate that term. You either ARE a Law student or your AREN'T, there ain't no inbetween) to use before they enter law school so they can have a "leg-up" on their classmates.

30
Would your clinics have been as beneficial if you had no desire to litigate?
http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php?action=post;quote=5339764;topic=4019437.20;num_replies=23;sesc=bd801d38c3b45f41d8465aa2d9b5b270


I wouldn't have signed up for any of them if I didn't want to be a litigator.

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