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Topics - vap

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11
I've been out of school a little while, and I'm not really sure how to address law school profs.  Profs at my undergrad school with JDs and no PhDs were just "Mr. / Mrs.," but how do you address your law school profs?  Does this depend on the school? 

12
I keep getting e-mails from schools that rejected me. It's initially heartbreaking, then funny, then depressing again. lol. No question, really, I just wanted to get that off my chest.

"Vaplaugh                                                               
                                                                               
The Office of Student Financial Services (OSFS) has received your               
2007-08 FAFSA application data electronically from the US Department of         
Education. However, we cannot process your application because you have         
not yet been admitted to the University.                                       
                                                                               
Questions regarding your admission status should be directed to the             
Office of Admissions at 512-475-7399 (512-475-7440 for freshmen;               
512-475-7390 for Graduate students) or the Admissions home page                 
at: http://www.utexas.edu/prospective.                                         
                                                                               
The OSFS home page is http://finaid.utexas.edu."

14
This is the methodology I used when I was applying, and it worked for me.  I am curious if any of you would like to follow this method and post your results. 

I used the the ABA/LSAC data to see 1) the # of students receiving full tuition or more scholarship and 2) the applicant profile of each school.  I took the total # of students receiving full tuition or more scholarships, divided by 3, and looked at the applicant profile to see if my scores placed me among the top students (who are the most likely to receive scholarships).

If you look at the applicant profile in a sweeping fashion (upper left box, then the box to the right of it and the box below it, then boxes to the right and bottom of those starting in the highest LSAT range, etc.) you could probably get a good indication of what your scores need to be in order to receive a full ride.  This favors the LSAT score slightly because you always look for the LSAT score first.

To obtain the ABA/LSAC data for your school, go here and click on the link to a school and then open the PDF files:
http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchResults/ShowAllSchools.aspx

As an example, you would look at the boxes in the applicant profile in this order for most schools (though some schools have different brackets):
1) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.75+
2) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.50-3.74
3) LSAT 170-174 GPA 3.75+
4) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.25-3.49
5) LSAT 170-174 GPA 3.50-3.74
6) LSAT 165-169 GPA 3.75+
7) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.00-3.24
8. LSAT 170-174 GPA 3.25-3.49
9) LSAT 165-169 GPA 3.50-3.74
10) LSAT 160-164 GPA 3.75+
11) LSAT 175-180 GPA 2.75-2.99
12) LSAT 170-175 GPA 3.00-3.24
13) LSAT 165-169 GPA 3.25-3.49
14) LSAT 160-164 GPA 3.50-3.75
15) LSAT 155-159 GPA 3.75+
And so on...

Whatever bracket you reach following the sweeping methodology I described above, your scores should be at that or higher on your numbered list.  Sometimes, however, there are outlier LSAT scores.  Someone with a 177 LSAT and 3.10 GPA comes to mind, which could get a full ride over someone with a 165 LSAT and 3.75 GPA (even though the list above says they shouldn't). You could include those if you want.

The amounts will vary greatly depending on the school.  For example, look at two similarly-ranked schools, Arizona and American (please note that the rank used is from the 2007 USNWR and the LSAT/GPA 75% are from ABA/LSAC):
 
Arizona: (Rank #43, LSAT 75% 164, GPA 75% 3.78)
# of students receiving full tuition or more scholarships / 3 = 21
Top 21 applicants' scores = LSAT 165-169 GPA 3.75+

So, from the list above, your expectation to receive a full tuition scholarship should be extremeley high if your scores are:
1) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.75+
2) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.50-3.74
3) LSAT 170-174 GPA 3.75+
4) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.25-3.49
5) LSAT 170-174 GPA 3.50-3.74
You have a good chance at a full scholarship if your scores are:
6) LSAT 165-169 GPA 3.75+
And you probably have somewhat of a chance at a full scholarship if your scores are:
7) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.00-3.24
8. LSAT 170-174 GPA 3.25-3.49

American: (Rank #43, LSAT 75% 163, GPA 75% 3.63 ... includes both full and part time)
# of students receiving full tuition or more scholarships / 3 = 11
Top 11 applicants' scores = LSAT 170-174 GPA 3.75+

So, from the list above, your expectation to receive a full tuition scholarship should be extremeley high if your scores are:
1) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.75+
2) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.50-3.74
You have a good chance at a full scholarship if your scores are:
3) LSAT 170-174 GPA 3.75+


Here's a comparison of what happend with some of my lower-ranked schools (scores 160/4.0).

McGeorge:
(Rank #97, LSAT 75% 159, GPA 75% 3.48 ... includes both full and part time)
# of students receiving full tuition or more scholarships / 3 = 6
Top 6 applicants' scores = LSAT 165-180 GPA 3.75+
Predicted Result = no full scholarship with my scores
Actual Result = no full scholarship

Houston: (Rank #70, LSAT 75% 162, GPA 75% 3.72)
# of students receiving full tuition or more scholarships / 3 = 3
Top 3 applicants' scores = LSAT 170-180 GPA 3.75+
Predicted Result = no full scholarship with my scores
Actual Result = no full scholarship

Texas Tech: (Rank 3rd Tier, LSAT 75% 158, GPA 3.75)
# of students receiving full tuition or more scholarships / 3 = 31
Top 31 applicants' scores = LSAT 165-169 GPA 3.25-3.49
Predicted Result = excellent chance of full scholarship
Actual Result = full scholarship

Mercer: (Rank #87, LSAT 75% 158, GPA 75% 3.67)
# of students receiving full tuition or more scholarships / 3 = 20
Top 20 applicants' scores = LSAT 160-164 GPA 3.75+
Predicted Result = good chance of full scholarship
Actual Result = full scholarship


This method is not perfect because it assumes that everyone offered the full tuition scholarships will accept.  The # of scholarships data is based on those who actually attend the school and have scholarships while the applicant profile data is based on only those who are admitted (but do not necessarily attend).  So, this methodology produces a conservative estimate.  Also, it does not account for special scholarships such as diversity of public interest full tuition scholarships, or the self-selection involved with scholarships that require special applications.  For example, American offers 10 public interest/service full tuition scholarships a year, so when you look at the data above, you see it's very unlikely that you will receive a full scholarship from American based solely on LSAT and GPA.

For anyone this application cycle that did not receive a full tuition scholarship but was realistically hoping for it from a particular school, I encourage you to follow the methodology above and post your results.  Similarly, if you do receive a full scholarship from a school, I also encourage you to post your results.  I would really be interested to see if this process works for other people as it has worked for me.

15
The University of Iowa was a school I considered attending this fall.  I have decided not to attend, but previously I did some research using www.nalpdirectory.com to get a better idea of the firms that recruit at Iowa.  I feel like it would be a waste to throw this away, and maybe someone on these boards would like to view it and/or help finish it.

http://www.geocities.com/vaplaugh/iowa_firms.xls

The spreadsheet lists all the unique firms that recruit at Iowa.  Each firm has one line (there is a separate column that lists other offices of the firm). The document includes the following columns:

Code - This is a number that corresponds to the second worksheet regarding firms identified as "lifestyle" firms via the National Jurist overall satisfaction ranking, the National Jurist billable hours ranking, and the Vault quality of life rankings.
See http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/cypress/nationaljurist1106/index.php and http://www.vault.com/nr/lawrankings.jsp?law2007=6&ch_id=242&best20=1

Firm # - The number of employees at the firm in total.

Office
- Location of the office. If multiple offices for the same firm interview on campus, then the largest size office is included here. The rest of the information (salary, etc.) might be office-specific.

Salary - Salary for first year associates.

2L Sum - The first number is the number of 2L summer associates the firm employed.  The second number is the number of these 2Ls that were offered full-time employment.

Hrs. Req. - The number of billable hours the firm says they require.

2005 Hrs. - The average number of billable hours worked by associates at the firm (as reported by the employer in 2005).

IA / WUSTL / MN / ND / IL / IN-BLOOM / WI - The number of graduates working at the firm from each school (University of Iowa, Washington University, University of Minnesota, University of Notre Dame, University of Illinois, University of Indiana at Bloomington, University of Wisconsin).  These numbers are obtained by searching the the firm's website through the attorney search function only.  If left blank, then the website did not allow visitors to search their attorneys by school name.  If a school is highlighted (excluding Iowa) it means the empoyer recruits at that school. If this document is completed, I foresee dividing the # of graduates at each school by graduating class size of that school.  This would provide a more relative number for comparing firms that recruit at multiple schools. For example, Blackwell Sanders employs 10 Iowa graduates and 6 Notre Dame graduates, but Iowa's recent class size according to www.nalpschoolsonline.com is about 219 whereas Notre Dame's is about 180. So, relative to class size, the numbers are 4.6% for Iowa and 3.3% for Notre Dame.

US Offices with 25+ attorneys - These are other offices maintained by the firm. Only offices with at least 25 attorneys are listed here.


I did not finish coding the # of graduates who work at each firm before my tuition deposit was due.  Since I am not attending a school in the Midwest, I have little enthusiasm to finish the required research. However, if anyone interested in Iowa (or the other schools) would like to help me finish this data, I would be happy to insert your research into the document and upload the new document.  Just post the document in this thread or PM for e-mail address.

16
Choosing the Right Law School / Iowa vs. T2 Full Ride (Mercer)
« on: March 19, 2007, 09:54:13 AM »
...

17
I understand what will increase the chances of landing a federal clerkship: high GPA and journal experience.  But, how much does a school's ranking play into it?  Does anyone know of a registry that tracks the schools attended by clerks working with certain judges?

I'm currently trying to decide between Iowa (out of state, no scholarship) and a T3 with a full scholarship. The median and 75% starting salaries at the schools are about equal.

I would like to do a district and/or circuit court clerkship. I'm leaning towards the T3 because, the way I see it, if I end up not having good enough grades at either school to get a clerkship, then I am better off being in debt only $40,000 (living expenses at T3) rather than $125,000 at Iowa. UNLESS, Iowa's higher ranking would provide an edge when applying for clerkships. 

Other than cost and ranking, the schools tie on the other important factors to me.

Any ideas?  Thanks!

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