Law School Discussion

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Topics - vap

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11
Just wanted to put this suggesting into the aether:

When seeking advice about where to go, please list how much it will cost you to attend the school rather than the amount of your scholarship award.

I suppose this thread will slide to page 2, 3, 4, and out of the LSD realm relatively quickly, but I just had to say it because typically my first post in every one of those threads is "How much will it cost you to attend each school?"  I am a law student, so I am incapable of arithmetic such as dividing by three and subtracting numbers that have more than one digit.  Thanks.   ;)

12
Meta Discussion / Challenge - who is wiimote?
« on: January 27, 2008, 03:20:08 PM »
I was reading a thread, http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,99398.0.html, and an exchange prompted me to create this thread.

Wiimote, where have you applied to law school? Or, if you're already a student, where do you attend?

Wiimote, why didn't you answer me?

Let's not get off track. This is what put you losers into tier 2 in the first place. Rather than dealing with challenges, you changed the subject.

The challenge posed by this thread, was to find one good job for an average tier 2 grad.

So, apparently, to get an answer to this question, there must be a separate thread where the specific topic or "challenge" is to figure out who is wiimote.  Feel free to speculate wildly.  Maybe wiimote will grace us with his/her presence and take the challenge.

Who is wiimote?  Is he/she a 0L, student, graduate, or none of the above?  If student/graduate, then where?

13
Meta Discussion / Firefox + Vista = Trouble for LSD?
« on: December 12, 2007, 12:17:55 PM »
Almost every time I visit LSD useing Firefox version 2.0.0.11 and Windows Vista, Firefox ends up "not responding."  Internet Explorer is fine.  Anyone else having this same problem?

14
I've seen numerous threads on conditional scholarships, but none with a list of what the conditions are at each school.  How about we start a list?  Please specify the admissions cycle along with any requirements.  If the school has a GPA requirement and you know the curve or have confirmed with Admissions roughly what the class rank cutoff is, please post that info as well. Thanks!

Unless otherwise stated, all scholarships are renewable for 3 years.


University of Akron
University of Alabama =  Top 25% (2007-2008)
Albany Law School
American University
Appalachian
University of Arizona =  Good Standing (2007-2008); None (2006-2007)
Arizona State University
University of Arkansas School of Law  =  Top 20% (2006-2007)
University of Arkansas at Little Rock
Ave Maria -  3.00 GPA (2005-2006)
University of Baltimore
Barry University
Baylor University =  2.60 GPA, roughly top 50% (2007-2008)
Boston College =  None (2006-2007)
Boston University  =  None (2006-2007)
Brigham Young University
Brooklyn
University at Buffalo Law School, The State University of New York (SUNY)
University of California, Berkeley (Boalt Hall)
University of California, Davis (King Hall)
University of California, Hastings
University of California at Los Angeles
California Western
Campbell University
Capital University
Benjamin N. Cardozo
Case Western Reserve University
Catholic University of America
Chapman University
Charleston
University of Chicago = none (2007-2008)
Chicago-Kent College of Law, Illinois Institute of Technology = 3.25 GPA, curve located here (2007-2008)
University of Cincinnati
City University of New York
Cleveland State University
University of Colorado = 3.00 GPA (2007-2008)
Columbia University
University of Connecticut
Cornell =  None (2006-2007)
Creighton University
University of Dayton
University of Denver  =  3.0 GPA (2007-2008)
DePaul University =  2.7 to 3.5 GPA depending on amount
University of Detroit Mercy
University of the District of Columbia
Drake University Law School
Duke University School of Law  =  None (2007-2008, 2006-2007)
Duquesne University School of Law
Emory University School of Law  =  None (2006-2007)
Faulkner University, Thomas Goode Jones School of Law
Florida A&M University College of Law
Florida Coastal School of Law  =  3.0 GPA (2007-2008)
University of Florida, Fredric G. Levin College of Law
Florida International University College of Law
Florida State University College of Law
Fordham University School of Law
Franklin Pierce Law Center
George Mason University School of Law  =  Top 33% (2006-2007)
George Washington University Law School  =  3.00 for Presidential (2007-2008); None (2006-2007)
Georgetown University Law Center  =  Good Standing (2007-2008); None (2006-2007)
University of Georgia School of Law
Georgia State University College of Law
Golden Gate University School of Law = 3.00 GPA (2007-2008)
Gonzaga University School of Law
Hamline University School of Law = 2.90 GPA (2007-2008)
Harvard Law School
University of Hawai‘i at Mānoa—William S. Richardson School of Law
Hofstra University School of Law
University of Houston Law Center  =  2.90 GPA, curve is 2.90-3.10 (2006-2007)
Howard University School of Law
University of Idaho College of Law
University of Illinois College of Law = Good Standing (2007-2008)
Indiana University School of Law—Bloomington  =  Top 33% (2006-2007); Top 50% (2005-2006)
Indiana University School of Law—Indianapolis = 3.40 GPA, curve located here (2007-2008)
Inter American University School of Law
The University of Iowa College of Law
The John Marshall Law School
John Marshall Law School—Atlanta
University of Kansas School of Law
University of Kentucky College of Law
University of La Verne College of Law
Lewis & Clark Law School = 3.00 GPA (2007-2008)
Liberty University School of Law
Louis D. Brandeis School of Law at the University of Louisville
Louisiana State University, Paul M. Hebert Law Center = Top 25% (2007-2008)
Loyola Law School, Loyola Marymount University
Loyola University Chicago School of Law
Loyola University New Orleans College of Law
University of Maine School of Law
Marquette University Law School = Good Standing (2007-2008)
University of Maryland School of Law
The University of Memphis—Cecil C. Humphreys School of Law
Mercer University—Walter F. George School of Law  =  Good Standing (2006-2008)
University of Miami School of Law  =  3.00 GPA, roughly top 50% (2006-2007)
University of Michigan Law School  =  None (2006-2007) 2.00 GPA (2005-2006)
Michigan State University College of Law
University of Minnesota Law School  =  2.5 GPA (2007-2008); 3.33 GPA (2005-2006)
The University of Mississippi School of Law
Mississippi College School of Law
University of Missouri—Columbia School of Law
University of Missouri—Kansas City School of Law
University of Montana School of Law
University of Nebraska College of Law
University of Nevada, Las Vegas, William S. Boyd School of Law
New England School of Law
University of New Mexico School of Law
New York Law School
New York University School of Law  =  None, reduced 3L unless public interest career (2006-2007)
University of North Carolina School of Law  =  Good Standing (2005-2006)
North Carolina Central University School of Law
University of North Dakota School of Law
Northeastern University School of Law
Northern Illinois University College of Law
Northern Kentucky University
Northwestern University School of Law = None (2007-2008)
Notre Dame Law School  =  Good standing (2007-2008)
Nova Southeastern University
Ohio Northern University
Ohio State University Moritz College of Law
University of Oklahoma College of Law  =  B- GPA (2005-2006)
Oklahoma City University School of Law  =  Top 50% (2005-2006)
University of Oregon School of Law
Pace University School of Law
University of the Pacific, McGeorge School of Law  =  Top 33% (2006-2007)
Penn State University, The Dickinson School of Law  =  3.0 GPA (2007-2008)
University of Pennsylvania Law School
Pepperdine University School of Law
University of Pittsburgh School of Law  =  None or 3.00 GPA (2007-2008)
Pontifical Catholic University of Puerto Rico School of Law
University of Puerto Rico School of Law
Quinnipiac University School of Law = Top 33%, full renewal; Top 50%, 80% renewal (2007-2008)
Regent University School of Law
University of Richmond School of Law
Roger Williams University School of Law
Rutgers—The State University of New Jersey—School of Law—Camden
Rutgers University School of Law—Newark  =  3.00 GPA (2006-2007)
St. John's University School of Law
Saint Louis University School of Law
St. Mary's University School of Law
University of St. Thomas School of Law—Minneapolis
St. Thomas University School of Law  =  2.00 GPA (2007-2008)
Samford University, Cumberland School of Law = Good standing, presidential (2007-2008)
University of San Diego—School of Law
University of San Francisco School of Law
Santa Clara University School of Law
Seattle University School of Law
Seton Hall University School of Law
SMU Dedman School of Law  =  Good Standing (2005-2006)
University of South Carolina School of Law = Good standing and nonresident for 1/2 tuition (2007-2008)
The University of South Dakota School of Law
South Texas College of Law
University of Southern California, Gould School of Law = None (2007-2008)
Southern Illinois University School of Law
Southern University Law Center
Southwestern Law School
Stanford University Law School
Stetson University College of Law
Suffolk University Law School  =  3.0 GPA (2007-2008)
Syracuse University College of Law
Temple University—James E. Beasley School of Law  =  Top 50% (2005-2006)
University of Tennessee College of Law
University of Texas School of Law = None (2007-2008)
Texas Southern University—Thurgood Marshall School of Law
Texas Tech University School of Law  =   Good standing (2007-2008); Top 50% (2006-2007);
Texas Wesleyan University School of Law
Thomas M. Cooley Law School = 2.00 GPA / good standing (2007-2008)
Thomas Jefferson
University of Toledo
Touro College
Tulane University = 3.00 for some (2007-2008)
University of Tulsa
University of Utah S.J. Quinney College of Law
Valparaiso University School of Law
Vanderbilt University Law School = None (2007-2008)
Vermont Law School
Villanova University
University of Virginia  =  None (2006-2007)
Wake Forest University
Washburn University  = 3.00 GPA (2007-2008)
University of Washington
Washington and Lee University  =  None for $5K (2007-2008); 3.00 GPA (2006-2007)
Washington University  =  None (2006-2007)
Wayne State University 
West Virginia University
Western New England College 
Western State University
Whittier
Widener University =  3.00 GPA, curved at 2.3 GPA (2007-2008)
Willamette University
William & Mary  =  C average (2007-2008); 3.00 GPA (2006-2007)
William Mitchell College of Law
University of Wisconsin  = Good Standing, 2.00 GPA (2007-2008)
University of Wyoming
Yale 


I've started incorporating information from this thread, and will update as time permits: http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic,55711.0.html

15
I've been out of school a little while, and I'm not really sure how to address law school profs.  Profs at my undergrad school with JDs and no PhDs were just "Mr. / Mrs.," but how do you address your law school profs?  Does this depend on the school? 

16
I keep getting e-mails from schools that rejected me. It's initially heartbreaking, then funny, then depressing again. lol. No question, really, I just wanted to get that off my chest.

"Vaplaugh                                                               
                                                                               
The Office of Student Financial Services (OSFS) has received your               
2007-08 FAFSA application data electronically from the US Department of         
Education. However, we cannot process your application because you have         
not yet been admitted to the University.                                       
                                                                               
Questions regarding your admission status should be directed to the             
Office of Admissions at 512-475-7399 (512-475-7440 for freshmen;               
512-475-7390 for Graduate students) or the Admissions home page                 
at: http://www.utexas.edu/prospective.                                         
                                                                               
The OSFS home page is http://finaid.utexas.edu."

18
This is the methodology I used when I was applying, and it worked for me.  I am curious if any of you would like to follow this method and post your results. 

I used the the ABA/LSAC data to see 1) the # of students receiving full tuition or more scholarship and 2) the applicant profile of each school.  I took the total # of students receiving full tuition or more scholarships, divided by 3, and looked at the applicant profile to see if my scores placed me among the top students (who are the most likely to receive scholarships).

If you look at the applicant profile in a sweeping fashion (upper left box, then the box to the right of it and the box below it, then boxes to the right and bottom of those starting in the highest LSAT range, etc.) you could probably get a good indication of what your scores need to be in order to receive a full ride.  This favors the LSAT score slightly because you always look for the LSAT score first.

To obtain the ABA/LSAC data for your school, go here and click on the link to a school and then open the PDF files:
http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchResults/ShowAllSchools.aspx

As an example, you would look at the boxes in the applicant profile in this order for most schools (though some schools have different brackets):
1) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.75+
2) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.50-3.74
3) LSAT 170-174 GPA 3.75+
4) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.25-3.49
5) LSAT 170-174 GPA 3.50-3.74
6) LSAT 165-169 GPA 3.75+
7) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.00-3.24
8. LSAT 170-174 GPA 3.25-3.49
9) LSAT 165-169 GPA 3.50-3.74
10) LSAT 160-164 GPA 3.75+
11) LSAT 175-180 GPA 2.75-2.99
12) LSAT 170-175 GPA 3.00-3.24
13) LSAT 165-169 GPA 3.25-3.49
14) LSAT 160-164 GPA 3.50-3.75
15) LSAT 155-159 GPA 3.75+
And so on...

Whatever bracket you reach following the sweeping methodology I described above, your scores should be at that or higher on your numbered list.  Sometimes, however, there are outlier LSAT scores.  Someone with a 177 LSAT and 3.10 GPA comes to mind, which could get a full ride over someone with a 165 LSAT and 3.75 GPA (even though the list above says they shouldn't). You could include those if you want.

The amounts will vary greatly depending on the school.  For example, look at two similarly-ranked schools, Arizona and American (please note that the rank used is from the 2007 USNWR and the LSAT/GPA 75% are from ABA/LSAC):
 
Arizona: (Rank #43, LSAT 75% 164, GPA 75% 3.78)
# of students receiving full tuition or more scholarships / 3 = 21
Top 21 applicants' scores = LSAT 165-169 GPA 3.75+

So, from the list above, your expectation to receive a full tuition scholarship should be extremeley high if your scores are:
1) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.75+
2) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.50-3.74
3) LSAT 170-174 GPA 3.75+
4) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.25-3.49
5) LSAT 170-174 GPA 3.50-3.74
You have a good chance at a full scholarship if your scores are:
6) LSAT 165-169 GPA 3.75+
And you probably have somewhat of a chance at a full scholarship if your scores are:
7) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.00-3.24
8. LSAT 170-174 GPA 3.25-3.49

American: (Rank #43, LSAT 75% 163, GPA 75% 3.63 ... includes both full and part time)
# of students receiving full tuition or more scholarships / 3 = 11
Top 11 applicants' scores = LSAT 170-174 GPA 3.75+

So, from the list above, your expectation to receive a full tuition scholarship should be extremeley high if your scores are:
1) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.75+
2) LSAT 175-180 GPA 3.50-3.74
You have a good chance at a full scholarship if your scores are:
3) LSAT 170-174 GPA 3.75+


Here's a comparison of what happend with some of my lower-ranked schools (scores 160/4.0).

McGeorge:
(Rank #97, LSAT 75% 159, GPA 75% 3.48 ... includes both full and part time)
# of students receiving full tuition or more scholarships / 3 = 6
Top 6 applicants' scores = LSAT 165-180 GPA 3.75+
Predicted Result = no full scholarship with my scores
Actual Result = no full scholarship

Houston: (Rank #70, LSAT 75% 162, GPA 75% 3.72)
# of students receiving full tuition or more scholarships / 3 = 3
Top 3 applicants' scores = LSAT 170-180 GPA 3.75+
Predicted Result = no full scholarship with my scores
Actual Result = no full scholarship

Texas Tech: (Rank 3rd Tier, LSAT 75% 158, GPA 3.75)
# of students receiving full tuition or more scholarships / 3 = 31
Top 31 applicants' scores = LSAT 165-169 GPA 3.25-3.49
Predicted Result = excellent chance of full scholarship
Actual Result = full scholarship

Mercer: (Rank #87, LSAT 75% 158, GPA 75% 3.67)
# of students receiving full tuition or more scholarships / 3 = 20
Top 20 applicants' scores = LSAT 160-164 GPA 3.75+
Predicted Result = good chance of full scholarship
Actual Result = full scholarship


This method is not perfect because it assumes that everyone offered the full tuition scholarships will accept.  The # of scholarships data is based on those who actually attend the school and have scholarships while the applicant profile data is based on only those who are admitted (but do not necessarily attend).  So, this methodology produces a conservative estimate.  Also, it does not account for special scholarships such as diversity of public interest full tuition scholarships, or the self-selection involved with scholarships that require special applications.  For example, American offers 10 public interest/service full tuition scholarships a year, so when you look at the data above, you see it's very unlikely that you will receive a full scholarship from American based solely on LSAT and GPA.

For anyone this application cycle that did not receive a full tuition scholarship but was realistically hoping for it from a particular school, I encourage you to follow the methodology above and post your results.  Similarly, if you do receive a full scholarship from a school, I also encourage you to post your results.  I would really be interested to see if this process works for other people as it has worked for me.

19
The University of Iowa was a school I considered attending this fall.  I have decided not to attend, but previously I did some research using www.nalpdirectory.com to get a better idea of the firms that recruit at Iowa.  I feel like it would be a waste to throw this away, and maybe someone on these boards would like to view it and/or help finish it.

http://www.geocities.com/vaplaugh/iowa_firms.xls

The spreadsheet lists all the unique firms that recruit at Iowa.  Each firm has one line (there is a separate column that lists other offices of the firm). The document includes the following columns:

Code - This is a number that corresponds to the second worksheet regarding firms identified as "lifestyle" firms via the National Jurist overall satisfaction ranking, the National Jurist billable hours ranking, and the Vault quality of life rankings.
See http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/cypress/nationaljurist1106/index.php and http://www.vault.com/nr/lawrankings.jsp?law2007=6&ch_id=242&best20=1

Firm # - The number of employees at the firm in total.

Office
- Location of the office. If multiple offices for the same firm interview on campus, then the largest size office is included here. The rest of the information (salary, etc.) might be office-specific.

Salary - Salary for first year associates.

2L Sum - The first number is the number of 2L summer associates the firm employed.  The second number is the number of these 2Ls that were offered full-time employment.

Hrs. Req. - The number of billable hours the firm says they require.

2005 Hrs. - The average number of billable hours worked by associates at the firm (as reported by the employer in 2005).

IA / WUSTL / MN / ND / IL / IN-BLOOM / WI - The number of graduates working at the firm from each school (University of Iowa, Washington University, University of Minnesota, University of Notre Dame, University of Illinois, University of Indiana at Bloomington, University of Wisconsin).  These numbers are obtained by searching the the firm's website through the attorney search function only.  If left blank, then the website did not allow visitors to search their attorneys by school name.  If a school is highlighted (excluding Iowa) it means the empoyer recruits at that school. If this document is completed, I foresee dividing the # of graduates at each school by graduating class size of that school.  This would provide a more relative number for comparing firms that recruit at multiple schools. For example, Blackwell Sanders employs 10 Iowa graduates and 6 Notre Dame graduates, but Iowa's recent class size according to www.nalpschoolsonline.com is about 219 whereas Notre Dame's is about 180. So, relative to class size, the numbers are 4.6% for Iowa and 3.3% for Notre Dame.

US Offices with 25+ attorneys - These are other offices maintained by the firm. Only offices with at least 25 attorneys are listed here.


I did not finish coding the # of graduates who work at each firm before my tuition deposit was due.  Since I am not attending a school in the Midwest, I have little enthusiasm to finish the required research. However, if anyone interested in Iowa (or the other schools) would like to help me finish this data, I would be happy to insert your research into the document and upload the new document.  Just post the document in this thread or PM for e-mail address.

20
Where should I go next fall? / Iowa vs. T2 Full Ride (Mercer)
« on: March 19, 2007, 11:54:13 AM »
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