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Messages - barenakedtjm

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41
The Nick Saban School of Law in Tuscaloosa, AL.

42
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Tuition for NEXT year
« on: April 02, 2007, 12:27:07 PM »
Even UCLA and Texas are 25k/36k and 18k/31k for res/non-res (respectively).  I had no idea until I just looked this up.  That's insane.  Alabama is 10k/20k.

43
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Tuition for NEXT year
« on: April 02, 2007, 12:15:31 PM »
How can a public school cost that much?  Ridiculous.

44
Law School Applications / Re: Dorm Violations, probation
« on: April 02, 2007, 12:03:57 PM »
what constitutes a good explanation?  Do I basically need to say I have matured and give some evidence of the maturity?

That sounds pretty good to me.

45
I worded it poorly.  If it's a kid that grew up poor driving an Escalade, then yeah, it's probably dirty money.  But if it's his Caprice Classic with an awesome system, that's pretty easy to buy with a Pell Grant.  The point I was making by bringing them up, though, was that that's plenty of money for a college kid to live a damn good life.  You said cafeteria workers make more than that--but that's not really relevant, because they have to pay bills.  I seriously doubt that they have $4500 or even $3400 of 100% disposable income.

I was referring to students who work for extra money...be it in the cafeteria/retail/doing administrative work etc...my point was the demands on their schedule from these jobs were far less than those placed on athletes...but if you really think athletes shouldn't be paid, then see tj's post--not-for-profit institutions shouldn't be using them as cash cows...

Huh?  I didn't see that post, but it doesn't really make sense.  If they're not-for-profit, then how do they have cash cows?  Isn't all that money going back into the program?  If so, what's the problem with maximizing that income?

I've notice you've ignored almost everything I've posted.

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend.  I'm doing other things and pretty much just responding to what I glance at that has me quoted.  I'll try to read the whole thing tomorrow.

46
I worded it poorly.  If it's a kid that grew up poor driving an Escalade, then yeah, it's probably dirty money.  But if it's his Caprice Classic with an awesome system, that's pretty easy to buy with a Pell Grant.  The point I was making by bringing them up, though, was that that's plenty of money for a college kid to live a damn good life.  You said cafeteria workers make more than that--but that's not really relevant, because they have to pay bills.  I seriously doubt that they have $4500 or even $3400 of 100% disposable income.

I was referring to students who work for extra money...be it in the cafeteria/retail/doing administrative work etc...my point was the demands on their schedule from these jobs were far less than those placed on athletes...but if you really think athletes shouldn't be paid, then see tj's post--not-for-profit institutions shouldn't be using them as cash cows...

Huh?  I didn't see that post, but it doesn't really make sense.  If they're not-for-profit, then how do they have cash cows?  Isn't all that money going back into the program?  If so, what's the problem with maximizing that income?

47
I worded it poorly.  If it's a kid that grew up poor driving an Escalade, then yeah, it's probably dirty money.  But if it's his Caprice Classic with an awesome system, that's pretty easy to buy with a Pell Grant.  The point I was making by bringing them up, though, was that that's plenty of money for a college kid to live a damn good life.  You said cafeteria workers make more than that--but that's not really relevant, because they have to pay bills.  I seriously doubt that they have $4500 or even $3400 of 100% disposable income.

48
You think $4500 of purely disposable income is chump change?  I promise you that being in college, not having to pay tuition, rent, utilities, or for food, you and I could have a DAMN good time with $4500.

The only athletes I know who I consider close friends (a couple of football players, a runner, and a soccer player) study hard (except for the soccer player, ironically) and take legitimate classes.  The runner is also in ROTC.  There is time to get an education if they choose to take advantage of it.

49
No they shouldn't.  Compare their lifetime earning potential without a college degree to what they can earn with one.  If they choose not to capitalize on that, it's their own business -- but they are paid as it is.  The rest of us had to pay for that benefit (or earn it academically).

I agree that they shouldn't be paid, but I think your post is a little callous.  I think many athletes come from less than stellar academic backgrounds, and basically people just work with them so that they can get the minimum SAT score necessary to play for the NCAA.  Once they're in school they're pressured to devote most of their energies to sports.  So I don't think it's that realistic to expect them to have wonderful non-athletic careers waiting for them post-graduation (if they even make it that far).

This is valid, but they can still capitalize on their degree and make more than they would have otherwise.  Also, be sure that you consider more than the football and basketball team with those assumptions.  The tennis, golf, soccer, even baseball, etc. players in the NCAA are a little different story.

Also, it's not like they live horrible lives in school.  They get stipends, "food money," housing...  and that's not to mention the unofficial benefits to being a college athlete (coeds, for one).

In some ways, I see your point -- I think it's pretty clear what these athletes "get."  I simply wonder if those of us whose educations are/were greatly enhanced by "student"-athletes at Division I schools have taken the time to explore at what cost these things come.  I can only speak from experience, but I'm unconvinced that people give just as serious thought to what these athletes are not getting in return.

I definitely agree that the athletes are being shortchanged by the schools.  They play in exchange for scholarships and earn the schools millions of dollars in tickets, deals, endorsements, etc.  A large percentage of them (don't know the #, it would be great if someone elae does) never graduate, so those years of playing ball are down the drain.  And if the student gets injured, they're SOL.  I think that rather than paying athletes they should be given more academic support. Rather than being pushed into easy majors and passed even without doing the work, they should receive more tutoring and be held accountable for their schoolwork.  School should obviously be the #1 priority.  I also don't think athletes should lose their scholarships if they're injured.  Obviously the schools will lose money on this one, but this policy would be a lot cheaper than paying every athlete.

Not graduating is the athlete's own fault.  Trust me--schools go FAR beyond what could be considered reasonable to graduate their players.  The fact that many don't graduate only strengthens the argument that they should NOT be paid--if they don't take advantage of the compensation that they receive already, why do they deserve MORE?

50

This is valid, but they can still capitalize on their degree and make more than they would have otherwise.  Also, be sure that you consider more than the football and basketball team with those assumptions.  The tennis, golf, soccer, even baseball, etc. players in the NCAA are a little different story.

We've already considered this...in fact my point was that the tennis, golf, soccer, baseball etc. players are subsidized by fball and bball athletes...sort of like taking the most from those who have the least to give...

Also, it's not like they live horrible lives in school.  They get stipends, "food money," housing...  and that's not to mention the unofficial benefits to being a college athlete (coeds, for one).

We're talking policy here and therefore we have to consider overall trends and not just focus on the one or two players you may know personally or the others you observe from afar...

I'm willing to talk all of them in general.  They ALL get food money (which is significantly more than they actually need for food in a day, not to mention the fact that it's on top of the snack they are allowed after practices which is either an entire pizza or a double cheeseburger).  This also doesn't consider their meal plans for on campus dining.  They also get free clothes, and a lot of them (shoes, jackets, sweatsuits).  In the state of SC the ones whose families cannot afford to give them spending money get Pell Grants, which because their tuition, meals, and rent, etc. are paid for by their scholarships, serve entirely as spending money (every wonder why so many guys drive nice cars, or have nice rims, sound systems, etc.?).  I don't know if the Pell Grant is federal, but I'm sure other states have similar provisions.

These guys live like kings as it is.

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