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Messages - 7S
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« on: April 11, 2007, 05:21:41 PM »
Whenever you guys get around to it...can someone explain to me what Al Sharpton has to do with the words that came out of Don Imus' mouth? Or 50 cent for that matter...heck, let's assume Al was wrong/rushed to judgment in every case preceding this one...does it make him any less right about this case??...
And once we sort that out could we talk about this issue...pretty please...because honestly the ad hominem-attacks-as-debate style of argumentation plays out much better on television...the only thing I got from reading this thread was a headache...
« on: April 11, 2007, 05:19:16 PM »
Again, merely in response to you. You made the uncalled for statement: why should we expect women to sanction mysoginist hip hop? no one had stated that they expected women to sanction any form of hip hop. where the hecht did that statement come from? so I merely responded with a declaration of fact: I do not expect women to sanction hip hop, even though some women do! the point...just to point out the irony of your statement, no more, no less.
You've changed the dynamics of your statement by adding the word "some." Nonetheless, I said, "How in the same breath, as black men, can we expect women to sanction misogynism from the male-dominated rap game," to which, you reply, "I dont have that expectation, but women do sanction hip hop." Notwithstanding the glaring generalization, to say "but" anything is to qualify your previous statement.
(1) Women are a group of people just as African-Americans are a group of people. (2) Imus drew outrage from many black people when he called the Rutger players "nappy headed hoes;" nappy headed being an attack on their African heratige and hoes being an attack on their gender. (3) Mainstreme rap music accomplishes the same goal with regard to the overall degradation of women by calling them hoes and b*tches. (4) However, there are very little to no grassroot efforts by the black community to oust current CEO's of Sony and Time Warner or attempts to force an apology of Bob Johnson for promoting the nonsense. Its hypocritical to demand Imus be ousted and not apply that same vigor of judgement to the other side.
"Why should I be? Seems like I'm diverting my energy from what really needs to be dealt with. Why jump on every Chingy who is a dime a dozen when I can focus on Tommy Motolla??? why get pissed when nelly swipes a girls butt with a debit card, when viacom is airing 100 other videos that do sh*t just like that. should I protest every video or viacom? Beyond that I'm not mad when someone who is uneducated and comes from nothing jumps at an opportunity (the only ones some get) to be something. I'm mad thats there most promising opportunity, I'm mad they have to demean women and themselves to follow through with this opportunity, but I cant bring myself to be mad at 17-19 yr old kids that have no education getting exploited by corporations. sorry."
Being uneducated does not allow you to luxury of also being immoral. Being an uneducated
hillbilly doesn't give you the right to call me a n*gger.
"they didnt allow him to come. even though it was going to benefit sick people. I lived it and was attending the AUC when it happened. It got coverage for a minute and then it went away. Nothing like this Imus ish. Nelly does fine to this day. Like I said, who are we supposed to be up in arms to? the media sensationalizes sharpton and puts a camera on him 24/7 then wonder why we arent up in arms abnout other things like we are about this. well, hell, local news barely covered the spelman event and it did not become news until well after it happened and it was more MTV than CNN MSNBC all day long 24/7 round the clock coverage. like I said, who should we show our anger too? and are you going to cover it?"
Just one small example: When it happened, the women at my college in Texas rallied and banned Nelly from being played at campus events and parties.
"but it does parrallel. this stems from me making the general statement that hip hop is fictional lyrics about anonymous people. you denied the truth of that statement. you are conflating terms now. it does not matter what the subject matter of the song is, the statement holds true: hip hop is fictional stories about anonymous people. there are exceptions i'm sure, but that wasnt your argument. you argued that hip hip is not anonymous because if someone says n-word they are talking to black people. wtf??? maybe you should look up anonymous."
I took your advice and looked up anonymous. It means lacking individuality, distinction, or recognizability. Within those confounds, it is totally recognizable that when I white person says, "I hate n*ggers," they are talking about black people. Equally, it is totally recognizable that when a man says, "I have hoes in different area codes," he is talking about women. An crowd full of anonymous women is still a crowd full of women.
"Already explained the difference. I'll repeat: black people do not control media coverage. there is outrage. if you cover outrage for this and not for something else does that mean the outrage is not there? if you goad people with 24/7 coverage about an inflammatory incident people will react more so than something that receives backpage coverage. got it? thats the difference."
What? Iraq is front page coverage, but that doesn't detract from our measure of outrage regarding genocide in Sudan. 20 years ago, and I would have conceeded my argument. However, 20 years ago, we didn't have the internet and 24 hour news stations. So please.
« on: April 11, 2007, 02:30:41 PM »
was I attempting to justify? not really. re-read. just making a response to the statement "how can we expect women to saction mysogyny in hip hop." I merely said I dont expect anything, but many women do sanction it. I'm not saying it is okay because their are women willing to sanction it. If I did say that point me to where. I think thats something you said and are words you have placed in my mouth.
So if you aren't justifying, why then say "but women do sanction hip hop?" [Post #47] What was the point in that statement? And if that was simply a declaration of fact, how does that help establish your point? Many women do sanction hip-hop, but not when it is laced with misogynism. Example: I like comedy, but not Michael Richard's jokes.
"why should I be angry at them and not the people who finance them and make money off of them?"
Who's saying you can't be angry at both. The corporate interests and their musical minions.
"Question: Who are black people supposed to be up and arms to?"
How did Spellman display their disgust with Nelly?
"everyone is within bounds of the law here. get it?"
so. Lawful and Moral are two diffent concepts.
"an example of another anonymouslyric. you are good at quoting out of context. and keeping with that theme of anonymity, by your logic should all young pregnant women named Brenda think Pac was talking about them? they have shared experiences...are women,...are pregnant... may be young..are named Brenda.. ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! it is an anonymous lyric man!!! to no one in particular, you may relate, you may not. not the same as saying brenda brown from Brooklyn has a baby, which would not be anonymous fyi."
But that doesn't parallel. Those lyrics aren't demeaning to women. They are depictive of problems in our society. "Brenda's Got a Baby" has context as opposed to "AREA CODES" by Ludacris. Come on now, brotha.
No one is de-valuing hip-hop. However, with regards to the uproar, some are asking what the difference is in Ludacris' hoes and Imus' hoes; whether Ludacris can objectify all women and Imus can objectify a 6 or 7.
« on: April 11, 2007, 12:16:37 AM »
I dont have that expectation, but women do sanction hip hop. They do it when they perform in the videos, when they imitate the dances in the clubs, when they buy albums, on and on. Even so I do not see this as a problem within the hip hop community as much as I see it as a problem within America.
-That justification is bs. Attention everyone: Video vixens now the spokespersons for all women.
"No free pass brother, but I'm wondering why the eye is being trained on hip hop the way it is?"
-The eye is on mainstream rap music. Not the Commons, Mos Defs, and the Tribe Called Quests. The eye is on the Nelly's and 50 Cent's who are socially irresponsible with their lyrics. The real "house negros" who play to the tune of Big Dollar Bill and the industry execs.
-Imus is comparable to rappers only in the context of the response from the black community.
-Brenda's Got a Baby!? Mysogonistic? You are really going to compare Tupac's account of teen pregancy in the black community to the likes of Nelly and his Tip Drill? And you love Hip-Hop.....get out of here.
« on: April 10, 2007, 11:51:02 PM »
So do you understand the difference between someone making a general statement that can be construed any number of ways, and someone making a specific statement about a specific person/people that can only be taken one way (as an insult)?
" are classified by their shared differences. African-American people
have physical and cultural traits that distinguish us from other races. On that same note, women are also a distinct people
. Distinguishable from men, they bear children. That's not a rigid analysis, that's common sense.
To recklessly refer to women and b*tches and hoes is a general statement about a specific group of people
, and it conjurs a history of oppression and objectification by men. So again I ask, if Strom Thurmond says, "I hate n*ggers," should I not be offended because he didn't say my name specifically?"
It is appropriate to compare a rapper's sexism with the Imus' remarks because of the black community's selective uproar. We silently sanction one and loudly critisize the other. That was the point I originally made. Like I said, no one has demanded an apology from Bob Johnson for the years of personified slavery broadcasted on his network or called for the ouster of Sony or Time Warner CEOs for their promotion of this type of degradation.
I never vilified all rap music . I singled out mainstream rap music because it is controlled by corporate interests. I love rap music, but I won't defend it when it is mysogonistic.
« on: April 10, 2007, 05:10:09 PM »
Rap videos are not just "fictional", they represent a stereotype of women as sex objects and animals of no personal self worth. Just because you "like it", doesn't make it acceptable. In fact that makes you a hypocrite. So if someone likes Imus, does that make his remarks ok? That is terrible logic.
I just want to know why so many people are mobilizing to get Imus fired. Why doesn't everyone get pissed off and do something about poverty and illiteracy? There are groups out there working towards this, but not with the same zeal that is being used to demand the immediate firing of Imus. I don't understand how you cannot see the difference.
LOL @ music videos of fictional booties with credit cards being swiped down their fictional cracks. Like the objectification of women is a cartoon.
« on: April 10, 2007, 04:52:24 PM »
I really never attempted to answer the question of what Sharpton has done for the black community. Are you really being serious with this question?
Yes, I am quite serious. Enlighten me to the good works of Big Perm.
Sharpton is galvanizing, but he loudly reminds America of her racism. If for nothing else, Sharpton's precense brings awarenewss of many deserving issues.
I don't see him as an oportunist. He isn't Rev. Jesse Petterson.
« on: April 10, 2007, 03:58:28 PM »
I don't fight against because I like rap.
And that is the same justifcation, white people use when the justify the idocies of Howard Stern.
Rappers give fictionalized accounts of anonymous people.
Those fictionalized accounts are not of anonymous people. If specification is the issue, then by NOT specifying, wouldn't you, by default, include the general population of women? If Strom Thurmond says, "I hate n*ggers," should I not be offended because he didn't say my name specifically?
We live in white dominated society. And equally, we live in a male dominated society. We, as blacks, justifiably, find grievance when a member of the white consortium makes a remark that is racially offensive. So how in the same breath, as black men, can we expect women to sanction misogynism from the male-dominated rap game?
White men demean all types of women for the almighty dollar. Any look at a billboard or magazine attests to this. White women are demeaned daily.
AS IF that gives us a free pass to do the same thing.
My argument isn't based on intellectual rigidness. It is directed at intellectual hypocrisy. And I should clarify, not all rap music is misogynistic. Some rap music is thoughtful and artistic, but radio doesn't play that.
The variables may differ, but what Imus did to those women equates to what mainstream rap music consistently does to all women.
« on: April 10, 2007, 01:09:30 PM »
This is getting way more attention than it deserves. AND why is it, when a white celebrity says something tinted with racism he apologizes to Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson. Are they the mouthpiece for Black America? I totally agree with prior posts. Imus should have publicly apologized to those women for defaming them-not to Sharpton. It oversimplifies racism when people suggest that comments like this deserve this much backlash.
Furthermore, bringing up rappers is appropriate in this discussion. The black community doesn't fight that industry with as much vigor as it does Richards and Imus. Sure we say it's wrong, but I have yet to see anyone DEMAND an apology from Bob Johnson for the years of personified slavery broadcasted on his network or call for the ouster of Sony or Time Warner CEOs for their promotion of this type of degradation.
« on: January 02, 2007, 06:39:25 PM »
Sup people. I've been reading through the BLSD board and it is always refreshing to see critical thinkers that look like me. I've got my eyes set on Howard for 2008-2009. I have to retake my LSAT because ummm...yeah. Does Howard average LSAT scores or take the highest?
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