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Messages - Butters Stotch

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31
General board for soon-to-be 1Ls / Re: '06 grad taking ??"s
« on: October 04, 2007, 02:37:03 PM »
1.  What was/is your school "ranked?"  (You can keep the name secret if you wish)

2.  What was your class ranking?

3.  How long did it take you to find a job, assuming you have found one?

4.  If you are willing to share, what was your starting salary, or salary range?

5.  Did you take a bar prep course?  If so, which one did you find most helpful?

6.  Did you do any pre-law preparation, i.e., law school prep courses, Planet Law School's approach, etc?

I'll post more as they come to me.

32

I like how you congratulate yourself for choosing an inexpensive school. Wise move. However, I don't understand why you attribute the decision to good luck. It's good that people are posting about the real job prospects for nearly all students not at a T30, but it's not fair to blame other people's choices on bad luck. When I applied, I knew that most of these schools were giving bad data. I did my homework. That is not luck. If these people are dumb enough to choose to pay for a degree that is 90% likely to be worthless, let them choke on their debt.

I like how you congratulate yourself on "doing your homework."  I wish there were more people out there who had your foresight.  Unfortunately, people coming out of undergrad simply don't have such information at their disposal, and don't know to look for it and to ask questions. 

What about this site?

I can't argue with that.  Like I said, if not for this site and xoxo, I would have had no idea that the curve or the sleazy practices in which law schools regularly engage even existed.  This site, and threads like these, should be required reading IMO.

Then again...what good would THAT do?  People, especially intelligent people, tend to believe *official* sources over Internet blather.  Hell, I even discounted most of what SoB and L2L and others stated, offhand, as negative bashing/trolling at first.  I am certainly a believer now, though, and I am genuinely concerned with my post-graduation prospects. 

Students should strive to be more informed, but schools should also be pressured to be as honest and straightforward as possible.

This is all I'm asking for.  I think that, if this issue could somehow be solved, the problem itself would largely be remedied. 

USNWR and NALP are big components of the problem as well. 

33
Excuses, excuses, excuses...

Pointing out the fact that schools are purposely misleading prospective students != excuse-making.  I think I plainly stated that students should do whatever they can to gather as much information that they can in the post that you quoted. 

There's too much complaining.

You mean, like you are doing right now?   ::) 

Future lawyers should have the sense to research their options carefully before committing to a life-long profession.  Manipulated employments stats are easy to spot.  On US News, just see how many the percentage of students who responded.  Never trust a figure given by a school.  Visit schools and ask students.  Ask current employers.  Get up off your high horse and do a little networking.  I mean, what school doesn't portray themselves in the best way possible! 

Yes, yes, of course.  Everyone should have the wisdom and foresight as mgoblue.  We get it.  You figured it out...everyone else should have as well. 

The scholarship excuse is even more pathetic.

Once again, pointing out what amounts to outright lies != excuse making. 

So long as a school tells you the GPA you need to maintain, they have committed no wrong.  Go through the student handbook and see what the curves are, and then you know your position.  Think about it.  A scholarship for 1 year that you might not be able to keep is at least better than nothing.  Prepare for the worst, but realize the school just gave you money.

TTT's publish curves and plainly state that a certain % of people FLUNK OUT after one year?  Really?  Which schools, specifically?  I applied to literally dozens, and I never saw any such information.  I talked to quite a few people during orientation who had NO IDEA that a curve existed at my school and, no, my school does not publish the curve anywhere, not even on its Web site.  I did manage to find the curve BURIED on the Web sites of a few schools, but in none of the literature I received was the curve even MENTIONED...and not a single school anywhere that I know if explicitly states that a certain % flunk out after 1L.  In fact, until I found this Web site and xoxo, I had no idea such a practice even existed and I can assure you that I am at least as intelligent as you. 

I know, I know...people should just "have the sense" to know what the curve is, or have the divine insight to ask whether failure is built into the curriculum at their school.  They took and passed the LSAT.  They should automatically assume that prospective schools are lying to them.  They should be smarter and stuff.   ::)

I will leave open the possibility that you can provide specific examples to prove me wrong, just as I will leave open the possibility that you're pulling sh*t straight from your ass to make your point. 

If you are unable to plainly see how unethical and sleazy it is for schools to award scholarships KNOWING that a certain percentage of those awarded will not be able to keep them, and without saying so in the award letter, then no amount of reasoning will ever help you understand.  The idiotic notion of, "Well, at least they got a one-year scholarship out of the deal, they should be grateful!" is even less worthy of a response. 

Regarding expensive T2s as opposed to state schools that are just as good.  I can sympathize with that.  I chose Rutgers Newark over Brooklyn because there really isn't much of a difference between the two.  Many NJ students, however, would choose Brooklyn over Rutgers simply because Brooklyn is in the city.  Well, maybe that is not the wisest choice, but keep in mind a lot of these students have parental backing.  If that's the choice they make, let their parents spend the extra money.  We live in a free society.

Really?  Now why do you suppose they would do that?  After all, shouldn't they be smart enough to know better?  They're law students ffs! 

I fail to see how any of this is helpful even in a remote sense.


When you or someone you know finally graduates and earns $40k a year per year with $100-$150k in debt, it will make more sense to you.


Those without financial backing should always choose the cheaper school of like quality.  If they don't, that's their fault. 

Congratulations!  You finally get the point!  (Assuming they have the "choice" that is...like SoB is saying, most shouldn't go at all, and the problem *may* fix itself if that happens.)

34
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Florida vs. Florida State vs. Miami
« on: October 03, 2007, 06:38:07 PM »

 In all reality, people who are happy with Miami's culture are probably going to hate Gainesville, and vice versa.

QFT.  As somebody that has lived in Miami his whole life, and is now in Gainesville for law, I can only agree.  Gainesville sucks...

Also, Gainesville doesn't suck, it's just very different from Miami. I personally couldn't see myself living in Miami or really anywhere in South Florida (and I've lived quite a bit of my life in Ft. Lauderdale, so it's coming from experience). I'm definitely not alone in this sentiment, either.

I hate living in Miami more and more with each passing day.

35

I like how you congratulate yourself for choosing an inexpensive school. Wise move. However, I don't understand why you attribute the decision to good luck. It's good that people are posting about the real job prospects for nearly all students not at a T30, but it's not fair to blame other people's choices on bad luck. When I applied, I knew that most of these schools were giving bad data. I did my homework. That is not luck. If these people are dumb enough to choose to pay for a degree that is 90% likely to be worthless, let them choke on their debt.

I like how you congratulate yourself on "doing your homework."  I wish there were more people out there who had your foresight.  Unfortunately, people coming out of undergrad simply don't have such information at their disposal, and don't know to look for it and to ask questions. 

I agree with your sentiment that students should do their homework and get all the information they can before committing to ANY law school.  That said, this does NOT excuse the schools from providing patently false information on employment statistics, misleading students about their graduates' salary numbers, offering 1L scholarships to 50% of the class knowing full well that only 30% of the class will be able to keep their scholarships going into 2L (and not informing students of this common practice), and a whole host of other bulls**t. 

36
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Bad to go to 4th tier full ride?
« on: October 03, 2007, 06:24:28 PM »
I went to Valpo on a full ride...just so you know, more than half of the scholarship recipients lose their scholarships after first year.  The current 1L class had a median below 2.7.  The requirement for keeping the scholarship is a 3.0 (60-65% of the class is below 3.0).  Not to mention Valpo's legal network extends to the 2 counties that surround it, period.  Take on some debt at a better school, your career will thank you for it.

Shot in the dark here...nobody at Valpo told you this before you enrolled, right?

37
Can I ask how long yours was?

<--- 4.5 years.

Let's see...we started dating around November of 2003, and we moved in together about 4 months later.  So, almost 4 years.

The excuse I was given was that "it broke" her "heart" when I informed her that I would not be attending law school in the town in which we lived and, instead, had chosen to go to a state school in another city where the tuition was about 1/5th of what it would have been at the private school I thought I would be attending.  We had talked it all out, and both agreed (I thought) that this course of action made the most sense.

My motto toward girlfriends and wives has always been: 

"If he can get her, he can have her." 

Therefore, good riddance as far as I'm concerned. 

Fun isn't it?
My ex was not pleased with my "better (and cheaper!) opportunities elsewhere" plan either...

My situation was different, in that my ex was ALL FOR IT, at least ostensibly.  Hell, she is probably still all for it, she's just trying to save face now that she's been busted and dumped.  /spit

38
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Bad to go to 4th tier full ride?
« on: October 02, 2007, 04:36:06 PM »
Define "full ride," as you see it.

If by "full ride," you mean, "full ride provided I maintain x.xx GPA or x or x% class ranking," then, no, yours isn't a "full ride."

It it's a scholarship with no strings, then you might consider it.  You're going to have trouble finding work in SC coming from Indiana, though, given that you will have not networked at all during school. 

If you try to go solo straight out of law school you're begging for a malpractice suit.  It is almost universally discouraged. 

39
Can I ask how long yours was?

<--- 4.5 years.

Let's see...we started dating around November of 2003, and we moved in together about 4 months later.  So, almost 4 years.

The excuse I was given was that "it broke" her "heart" when I informed her that I would not be attending law school in the town in which we lived and, instead, had chosen to go to a state school in another city where the tuition was about 1/5th of what it would have been at the private school I thought I would be attending.  We had talked it all out, and both agreed (I thought) that this course of action made the most sense.

My motto toward girlfriends and wives has always been: 

"If he can get her, he can have her." 

Therefore, good riddance as far as I'm concerned. 

40
My long distance relationship just ended like a few hours ago.  I found out my now-ex hooked up with...you guessed it...one of my best friends from back home!  Women R FUN! 
 :(

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