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Messages - dimrod80

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Law School Admissions / Re: room at the top
« on: January 05, 2007, 11:31:27 AM »
The numbers game (plus the non-response of almost every school I applied to) makes me really nervous that I should apply to every T14 just in case. I'm really borderline at most schools with a 169 (for those that are taking the higher score). I just feel like there are enough 170+ people out there to fill up all the seats at the T14, even though your numbers say otherwise.

What's your GPA?  What was your lower LSAT score? 

With 169, anything more than a 3.6GPA could probably get you in somewhere - that's just my $.02.  And there are definately not enough 170+ers.  They are all getting all the acceptances now, early in the cycle.  But there are not enough of them to fill all the seats.  Sooner or later they'll start turning down schools and that's when the rest of us 95%+ers will have a shot - you'll see. 

Law School Admissions / Re: room at the top
« on: January 05, 2007, 11:25:46 AM »
Ok, i was only guessing abour the URMs.  From what I understand, URM does not mean minority, it means under represented. So Asians don't count.  I'd say  Af Americans, Hispanics, Nat. Americans are probably the majority of them.  At Columbia total minority enrollment is 32% and actual URMs are 17%, a bit more than half.  At Harvard total minority enrollment is 34%, at NYU it's 25%. 

Lets assume that top law schools would prefer to take a URM with high scores when possible, but is willing to dip a bit more than normal with a URM in order to keep minority percentages high (between 25-35% of entering class).  Half of the minorities are not going to be under represented anyway, so law schools don't worry about them.  So now there's about 15% of the class made up of groups that are harder to get.  That's where you have URMs with slightly lower scores getting into better schools.  This could mean a URM with a 169 Lsat is going to Yale.  Or a 167er will get into Columbia.  It does not mean that they're taking places away from other high scorers, just that they get to jump the cue a bit as far as Lsat scores. All 167ers can get into a t14, but the URM will get into a better one. 

 A 155er URM is NOT going to Harvard or Columbia or even probably G-town.  A 163er URM might get into G-town, but most likely is not taking the spot away from a 173er regular applicant.  Again, not all URMs will have lower LSAT scores.  The URMs who are 170+ are going to be grabbed first by most of the top law schools and they're the same guys that would take a t14 spot even if they weren't URM.  So I don't think it's correct to say that URM take spaces from other applicants.  Of the 4000 167ers we're hypothetically dealing with, probably a few hundred are URMs anyway. 

In conclusion, in my opinion, even with the URMs having a bit of a boost, there is still room at the top for the rest of us.   

Law School Admissions / Re: room at the top
« on: January 05, 2007, 11:11:41 AM »
When you say 5% URMs, I assume you mean, ahem, less than qualified URMs. There are surely plenty of URMs with elite scores, so I have to guess that the 5% means those URMs who scored, say, a 155 and are at a t14.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying 155s don't belong at t14s, as I recognize there's more to an applicant than an LSAT score. However, for the purposes of this thread, we are operating strictly on the mathematics of LSAT distribution as it pertains to t14 students.

I don't know of 155er URMs who get into t14s.  What i usually see on LSN are 162-165ers who are auto-admits to the t14s.  The 155-160er URMs are probably going to tier 1 schools, but not the t14s

Law School Admissions / Re: room at the top
« on: January 05, 2007, 10:45:29 AM »
sorry 4000 of us

Law School Admissions / Re: room at the top
« on: January 05, 2007, 10:43:46 AM »
hey along these lines check out this data from bu.  i know it is not quite t14 or whatever but it is a school i am very interested in.

scroll down to the applicant profile table on the last page.

number of applicants with a lsat of 170 or higher: 325
number of applicants with a gpa 3.5 or higher: 2963

unless i'm reading this wrong but i'm pretty sure i'm not

I agree taht 3.5 doesn't correlate with 170+.  Try 3.75+ and the number of applicants dwindle to 580. 

Also, I did account for URMs, but believe it or not they don't take that many seats.  They make up perhaps 5% of admissions, so they're not getting more than 220 seats out of the 4260 - still enough room for the 400 of us in the 95% and higher. 

Law School Admissions / Re: application help please
« on: January 05, 2007, 08:02:23 AM »
correct me if im wrong, but i can send out just the core app first, and later i can send the resume,PS,and recs?

I'm not sure, you can call LSAC to ask.  I sent out my PS and Resume with the app and the LORs followed. 

Law School Admissions / Re: room at the top
« on: January 05, 2007, 07:58:50 AM »
I think the numbers are skewed by the fact that a disproportionate number of 120-145 scorers do not apply than is the case for 170+ scorers.  How much so, however, I cannot say.

Good point.  Also, a scorer can use his score for 5 years, so there are probably a good amount of scorers every year coming from the top percents of a previous year.  I have no idea if this makes any sense though.  Then again, mabye with the number of applications beging down this year, our chances are better anyway. 

The real reason I started this thread is that I saw on LSN someone from last year with 167LSAT and 4.0 GPA who got rejected from all t14 schools.  He wrote in the comments portion that the only weak part of his application was LSAT score.  I feel like based on other empirical evidence, he is wrong.  If a 167er is rejected from EVERY t14, then there has to something else wrong with the application (like an obnoxious ps or bad LORs) and it is not just LSAT score, because there is room at the top for him. 

Law School Admissions / Re: Help! Can't stop applying!
« on: January 05, 2007, 07:53:11 AM »
I don't think 7 is compulsive, 36 is a bit much though.  My philosophy was that I would only apply to schools that I would consider going to.  Meaning, if every other school rejected me and this was the only school I got into (above my safety school), would I really want to go.  Would I really uproot my life and move to this area just to go to this school.  I also ended up applying to 7, because there were only 6 t14s where I could honestly answer yes to that question. 

Law School Admissions / Re: room at the top
« on: January 05, 2007, 07:48:55 AM »
John - trust me on this.  Apply, write a decent PS, have decent LORs and you will get into a T14.  If you're scared then apply to all of them, but I don't even think that's necessary.  I will make you a bet for $100 that you'll get in.  You can hold me to that.  Just apply soon, rolling admissions.  Also, if you're really scared, go to LSN and look up people with numbers like yours and you'll see what I mean - they all got in somewhere.  Stop psyching yourself out. 

Law School Admissions / Re: room at the top
« on: January 05, 2007, 07:33:11 AM »
John - from what I've seen and what I can tell, you should have no problems.  If your score was 169 or under, then maybe a 166/3.8 could overtake you, but with a 173/3.2, rest easy.  The only 170+ers I've seen rejected are those under 3.0GPA.  You will be fine.   This guy I know had a 170, 3.2GPA, and applied the day before the deadline at G-town and he still got in. 

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