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Messages - IrrX

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Current Law Students / Re: Forum for discussion of law, cases, etc.
« on: January 12, 2012, 11:52:17 PM »
This one works.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: LSAT TUTORS (TORONTO)
« on: December 29, 2011, 02:25:56 PM »
I think it's alright, since you're looking for a tutor in your area. That rule is more for tutors offering their services and using this board as a way to post their contact info. Usually over, and over, and over again. If you have any specific questions, feel free to post them here, and you'll likely find the help you need.

How do I stop getting notifications every time someone posts in this thread?

The "UNNOTIFY" button at the lower right.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Securities Law
« on: December 24, 2011, 02:09:36 PM »
So you guys are saying that one shouldn't go to law school unless they have top grades from the top schools, much less even begin thinking about getting a job as a lawyer. Furthermore the job will tear your life apart, and you will either love it or hate it. To be honest, it really does sound like hyperbole. Or it might be an anti-competitive conspiracy to lessen the supply of lawyers?   ;)

Just out of curiosity, what experience(s) and credentials do you guys have to come to a conclusion like this?

At least "pretty good" grades from top schools, yeah. At least the T14 for a good job, like the one you're after. But with your numbers, that's not what you're going to get. If you're really going to do this, for you, it's just trying to get in and, later, get a job. Any job. If I were in your position, I'd try to get a job as an investment banker. If you're pissed off about what's happened in finance and investment in recent years, you can always be an insider for DoJ. They've had a hell of a time getting FBI agents on the inside. Even harder of a time than they've had getting people inside the mafia. So that's one route. But honestly, law isn't going to happen for you, unless you take the LSAT again and really kill it. I mean like over 170. It isn't a conspiracy to keep people out of law school. Some people I fully recommend going to law school, if they fit a certain profile. I'm honestly speaking to you in your best interests.

My credentials? Other than being where you are now, being through with law school, and seeing all of the horrors that law school and the practice of law can unleash on myself and the many friends I have who are law students and lawyers, having seen lives crumble and relationships fail as a result of it? I've been here for years. I've seen class after class come through this site. I've seen their hopes while studying for the LSAT shattered. I've seen rejections from favored schools, and I've also seen some massive successes with friends attending top schools. I've seen dreams come true at graduation, and I've seen students change their plans and priorities in the middle of 1L or even 2L. Really, I've seen it all. I've seen everything law school and the practice of law has to offer, and I really don't think it has much to offer you. You have many better options.

edit: If you don't want to take my word for it, find someone who's doing what you want to do and discuss it with them. I'm sure their assessment will be fairly close to ours. Hell, for that matter, find anyone who recently graduated from a school you would get into with your scores, and they'll tell you what's up.

There are several LLM programs in the UK that can be studied without an LLB and do not lead to the practice of law, but none I know of in the US without a JD. Generally, a law school in the US will offer the option of a Master of Legal Studies (MLS) for people who want to study law, but not practice it.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Securities Law
« on: December 24, 2011, 12:53:19 AM »
I need work that is challenging, requires intellectual curiosity, and critical thinking.

That describes a lot of jobs, including legal practice, but doesn't explain why you want to be a lawyer.

Sometimes I watch C-SPAN and analyze arguments. What led to my interest in securities law (among other things) was the Goldman Sachs hearings, the Rajaratnam insider trading, WaMu Bankruptcy case, and Dodd-Frank legislation. I've taken classes in college such as Philosophy, Analyzing Evidence, and a basic law class. It feels natural to me.

It's better than the "I watch Law & Order and think I can do that" statement, but not by much. It's pretty much the equivalent of wanting to go to culinary school because you make a damned good grilled cheese. That basic law class you took? It's nothing like actual law classes, and an interest in the law at the level you describe won't even get you through 1L. You haven't convinced me. You know what makes a successful legal career? Pick one end of the emotional spectrum: love or hate. On one side, you can love what lawyers do every day, so much more than anything else in your life that you barely even notice them slipping away while you work. A recent discussion I had included, "[Wife] left me on Tuesday. I billed 14 hours on Wednesday." Keep that in mind. On the other side, you can hate something that pisses you off so much and is so pervasive that it can fuel you through years of tearing apart everything you love. That's not hyperbole. Just look at addiction, divorce and suicide rates for lawyers. Going to a lower-tier school will only aggravate that, because your chances at employment are so much lower.

As far as other careers - IT is like a trade job; after 1 year working at a part time IT desk I felt like I was at the same level as my superiors. Finance is more difficult for now at least with many layoffs and uncertainty on Wall Street.

I hate to break it to you, but the law is a trade job, too. The purpose of law school isn't to train you to be a lawyer; it's just to teach you how to read the law, memorize and spot fact patterns, and pass the bar exam. The rest is on-the-job training. Pray you get a job, because otherwise you'll be hustling for work like strippers do lap dances.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Securities Law
« on: December 22, 2011, 03:53:39 PM »
I appreciate your honesty, but I have the motivation and I think correct expectations. Most importantly I have a deep interest in law. If I can't get a job out of law school, I have skills in finance and IT to make money - that's not an issue.

If you have skills in finance and IT, why aren't you just planning on using them? You could get pretty far in a career in three years. And you didn't answer the question on why you want to be a lawyer.

I think my biggest problem is getting into a law school that I like and one that provides value and a unique education. Would you suggest applying to a law school initially and transferring to a better one after the first year? Is that a common route for lower end credentialed students?

Well, to help you pick out a school, you can look at some law school admissions calculators to see where you have a shot at getting in. From there, you can research the area, what major and minor journals they have so you can try and get on those. As far as applying to a law school with the intention of transferring: never, ever do this. Every law student applies to school with what they consider to be "correct expectations" but few live up to them. Law school is far more competitive than you know. If you plan to transfer out, you pretty much have to be in the top 10% and, as we all know, there is no way to cram 100% of students into the top 10%. So, it's very important to manage your expectations accordingly. As far as whether it's a common route: very few manage it; far fewer than those who attempt it.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Securities Law
« on: December 22, 2011, 11:33:06 AM »
With a 153/3.0 you should be focusing on schools that will consider you, because your options are going to be extremely limited. If you really want to go to law school, you have two options: 1) take the LSAT again and try to do significantly better, since there's nothing you can do about your GPA or 2) start looking at low-ranking law schools in cities you feel you can tolerate living in for an extended period, since it's where you're going to spend three years going to school there, and will likely begin the practice of law (if you get a job) and not be able to leave until you have some years of experience.

You need to reflect on why you want to go to law school at this point. Specifically, why do you want to be a lawyer? Why do you want to invest that much money and three years of your life for this? What do you hope to get out of it, when even a job seems unlikely for people who went to a higher-ranked school than you are likely to attend with your current scores?

If I sound harsh, it's only because a lot of people fail to grasp the reality of their situations and cover it with a lot of misplaced hope and a scattering of fairy dust. So, just realize that your outcome will be about as poor as it can be: go to school to be a barrister; end up a barista.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: When should I take my first LSAT test?
« on: December 18, 2011, 11:39:17 PM »
I agree with everyone who's saying don't take it until your ready. But this is the might be some bitter honesty. You better GET READY!...

I want to live in a van down by the river.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: Easily confused topics/words
« on: December 17, 2011, 12:00:49 PM »
Is there anything left to this place?

Not a lot, compared to how it was. Wouldn't even cast a shadow if it were to turn sideways. Some folks who post good info, but a lot of talking out of the ass.

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