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Messages - smujd2007

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Current Law Students / Re: tax study aid?
« on: January 31, 2008, 07:46:43 AM »
The Sum and Substance CD's helped me A LOT.  I listened to them in the car b/c I had a long commute to school each day. I used the Emmanuels as well.   

Job Search / Re: Laser Printer? wtf?
« on: January 30, 2008, 07:37:11 PM »
Yes, there's a reason that they call it resume paper.  Use it for its intended purpose.  I'm sure there's something that you're spending money on that you don't need, that you could do without to buy some paper.

Yeah, I have always used university printers and am not about to load 'resume paper' into those bad boys.  If someone wants to throw me out because I didn't use the heavy paper, do I want to work for such an uptight jerkass anyway? 

N.B. I do use PDF instead of .doc though. It's just nicer and it also prevents them from going "I'm going to write all over this dude's resume" on their own screen for their selfish fun.  (At least without extra software).

It's not that people are being jerks by requiring resume paper--it's that it's basic business etiquette 101.  You're being unprofessional by not following a practice that is about as standard as wearing a tie to your interview...

Current Law Students / Re: Studying abroad for 1L summer?
« on: January 30, 2008, 08:39:59 AM »
Most of my classmates who did this said it was a great experience.  It gives you the chance to bond a little more with the professors and students who travel with you.

It also gives you something to talk about during interviews--sometimes, your interviewers study abroad too, and you can compare notes.  And, contrary to popular belief, it is not the end of the world if you don't work anywhere law related after your first year.  I know plenty of people who did study abroad after 1L (or traveled, or did absolutely nothing because they were so drained) clerked during 2L, and have jobs--with firms and public interest. 

Working after 2L is  A LOT more important than working after 1L. 

This sounds like a really fun thing to do and I get 6 credits for it.  However, is there any negative to doing this? 

Job Search / Re: 2L still looking for a job & frustrated...
« on: January 30, 2008, 08:31:52 AM »
I got my 2L job at the beginning of April, and my GPA was nowhere near what yours was. It was with the City Attorney's office--which is government (some would classify as public interest--depends on your definition). 

Also, speaking from experience, if you are interested in public interest law, YOU MUST find a nonprofit to work for this summer.  Even if it doesn't pay--it will broaden your marketability when you graduate. I had an interview with a nonprofit and the ONLY reason I was turned down is because my nonprofit experience wasn't long enough, and there were other candidates that had a lot more nonprofit experience. Nonprofits really like to see that you spent A LOT of time with a nonprofit.  Six weeks and a semester (part time) wasn't enough, but a full summer, full time, would probably do it. 

Dood, approx 20% of the 2Ls on my school's law review haven't found jobs yet (lower T1). It seems to be the beginning of the squeezed law employment market. try to find something, even if nonpaying, to do this summer which could still translate into a job next year. I would seriously doubt it's an experience issue as much as a "no one is hiring" issue. Hang in there and try not to let yourself panic or feel desperate.

Current Law Students / Re: Should I drop out?
« on: January 29, 2008, 05:24:49 PM »
I wouldn't say they are easy to land, but if you are willing to move to a rural area, that is an option.  In a lot of rural areas, DA's and assistant city attorneys are in high demand because no one wants to live there.  YOu could go, stay a few years and get some great experience, and then look for employment elsewhere.

Most people from T3's or T4's end up going into private practice or working for the DA.  You'll make about $50k starting out.

I would question whether the 2.0 is sufficient to keep your scholarship.  Most schools re-evaluate scholarships annually.  In other words, just because you got a scholarship for 1L doesn't mean you get one for 2L or 3L.  Double check.

Not sure where you got your facts, but DA jobs are not easy to land, generally.  They are stepping stones for DOJ and a T3 grad with subpar grades isn't going to make a very strong candidate. 

My advice is to keep working hard this semester and try to raise that gpa.  However, IMO, I wouldn't take on 40k or more of debt to get a JD from a T3 with minimal job prospects, but that's just me.

Current Law Students / Re: Character and Fitness Concern - Petit Larceny
« on: January 29, 2008, 05:22:14 PM »
Try looking for lawyers who specialize in expungement, professional responsibility (malpractice). A good criminal law attorney may be able to refer you to someone, if they can't handle it themselves.  That's the same general area.  You might ask a counselor at your school? (are you in school--I'm sorry, I forgot) --if you disclosed this info to the bar, I'm sure you've disclosed it to your school as well? (or you will, anyway).

My two cents, for what its worth.

Current Law Students / Re: Character and Fitness Concern - Petit Larceny
« on: January 29, 2008, 06:35:20 AM »
That's probably the best response yet.

There are attorneys who handle character and fitness issues.  You should contact one, and spend a little bit up front for a consultation and candid assessment from an attorney in the state you intend to practice in. 

Current Law Students / Re: 1L who just got rocked seeks advice
« on: January 29, 2008, 06:32:07 AM »
This is the credited response.

OCI is only for people in the top 1/3.  And some of them still don't find their jobs through OCI. Work your contacts the best way you can, and you have work experience that means volumes to employers. 

Do the best that you can, but get your diploma, pass the bar, and go practice law.  Nothing is stopping you. You may have to work a little harder, but most people do.  People forget that outside of the top 25% of the class is 75% of the class.  That is a majority.  Remember, a majority of people are faced with the same decision that you are, and are going to take the same approach.  You are more fortunate b/c you already have some contacts. 

Good luck!

It seems like you have pretty much figured it out.  I wouldnt expect a job through OCI which is fine.  As you are a non-traditional student, you have many skills that smaller practitioners will love.  Just keep the networking up and keep plugging along.

Agreed. Screw OCI. And screw grades for that matter. Just graduate, pass the bar and kick ass on your own. Law school exams test your ability to do well on law school exams. That's about it.

It's nice to see a post from somebody who understands that law school is just a nuisance standing in the way of the practice of law.

Current Law Students / Re: What do I tell the judge?
« on: January 29, 2008, 06:06:11 AM »
This person said they were interviewing with a federal judge, not a firm.  Everything is not about what a firm would ask or do. Legal jobs are different, so interviewers in different areas ask different kinds of questions. There is life outside of the law firm track. 

Of course, you don't want to be prepared to the point where you sound over reahearsed.  But preparation is the key to confidence, for some.  I would agree with Peaches, too, that researching your interviewer is a must.  And yes, they want to see if you can carry on a conversation, but you are also selling yourself as well. If the interviewers starts talking about client intake, and you have done client intake at 2 different summer clerkships, you are CRAZY if you don't take that opportunity to discuss that with the interviewer, even if its is on your resume. When it is time to make the decision, will the interviewer remember the person who merely smiled and nodded, or the person who was able to relate what they have done in the past to the position they are seeking? Yes, you are having a conversation where you are trying to give as much information, but your underlying goal is to say as much about your education and experience (and how it relates to the job) as possible.   

I was joking, obviously, although I'd think less of an interviewer who asked that question.  I wasn't asked that question from any firm, and the associates at two career panels with top firms all said they never ask that question because it's a stupid question.
The biggest complaint from interviewers at the panels was that students come in with a list of things they'd planned on saying and try to make sure they get through the list.  Everyone I interviewed with seemed like they were mainly in seeing if you are good at conversation and quick on your feet.  I didn't really talk about the law much or my resume much.  My biggest suggestion is to research your interviewers so you know the things they're interested in.

Current Law Students / Re: What do I tell the judge?
« on: January 28, 2008, 08:48:15 PM »
Take it from someone who has been on interviews where this question was asked and got hired.  You need to be prepared with at least one weakness, and be able to spin it in a positive light. It is a common interview question.  And walking out makes no sense.  You will be asked things that you don't think are relevant all the time.  It doesn't matter if you think it is stupid. You have to answer if you are asked.  And if you say you don't have any weaknesses, you appear to be arrogant.

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