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Messages - afer1500

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1
1L job search / Re: Job offer but pay is low...should I counter?
« on: March 13, 2008, 11:21:58 AM »
So after an initial rejection, same employer reconsidered and offered more. I will be taking this offer.

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1L job search / Re: Job offer but pay is low...should I counter?
« on: March 06, 2008, 11:25:27 PM »
Thank you all for the great advice. I've asked for a pay increase and the firm said that salary was not negotiable. However, they did agree to waive the 90 probationary period for whatever thats worth.

I'll probably email the firm tomorrow and pass on the offer. I think someone who has their heart in it should get the position. My wife and I are not desperate for the money but I still think I can a better salary wise. I agree being T4 makes a difference and maybe I am being pigheaded but I've never been one to settle when it comes to work. If the position was in closer I'd probably take it and suck it up, but its just too far to drive everyday for 10 per hour and not far enough away to justify getting an apartment. I think something else will come along and if it doesn't I'll just intern for free w/ the Prosecutors office 10 minutes away. For those who care I shall update when I know more.



Do you  have an offer in hand from the DA's office?  If not, then you're being extremely cocky and presumptuous to simply assume that they'd want you.  Many 1 and 2Ls actually APPLY to intern (for free) at DA and PD offices, and have to interview/compete for offers.  ADAs only have so much time to supervise interns and only so much work they can let 1L do.  So don't assume you can just volunteer any old where you want.

And FWIW, if you're giving up PAID legal work as a 1L at a T4, you're insane.  Paid legal work for any 1L is hard to find, and only gets harder the lower down in the tiers you go.  You may refuse to see that, but it's true.  Granted, it says quite a bit about you that you got a paying offer anyway, and that's something to take pride in.  You're throwing away a great opportunity though, and getting greedy, IMO.  I'd suggest you get over yourself.

I have an offer to intern at the prosecutors office in the county were I live and in Miami-Dade as well, I've had that lined up for a month or so. So I'm not being cocky. It's just my circumstances. Basically it boils down to whether I want to drive nearly 100 miles roundtrip daily. I don't. I think I can garner a similar experience whether I'm at a firm or whether I'm at the Prosecutor's office. The 10 per hour isn't worth the drive in my opinion. I'll see if something paid comes along, like I said I still have firms and PI institutions that I haven't been rejected at yet. 

3
1L job search / Re: Job offer but pay is low...should I counter?
« on: March 06, 2008, 11:03:58 PM »
Thank you all for the great advice. I've asked for a pay increase and the firm said that salary was not negotiable. However, they did agree to waive the 90 probationary period for whatever thats worth.

I'll probably email the firm tomorrow and pass on the offer. I think someone who has their heart in it should get the position. My wife and I are not desperate for the money but I still think I can a better salary wise. I agree being T4 makes a difference and maybe I am being pigheaded but I've never been one to settle when it comes to work. If the position was in closer I'd probably take it and suck it up, but its just too far to drive everyday for 10 per hour and not far enough away to justify getting an apartment. I think something else will come along and if it doesn't I'll just intern for free w/ the Prosecutors office 10 minutes away. For those who care I shall update when I know more.


4
1L job search / Re: Job offer but pay is low...should I counter?
« on: March 04, 2008, 11:07:03 PM »
Wow, bitter much? 

Just checked out your posts.  You sound like you're doing really well!  Maybe I should follow your advice and study 8+ hours a day so that I can make $15 an hour!  That will show them what I'm really worth!  I'm sure I'll blow away the competition, with my bachelor's degree, Spanish language skills, and misguided confidence. :)



I'm sorry that you have some flaw that makes you need to try and insult others to feel better about yourself. Good luck trying to fill w/e hole it is you have in your heart or soul. I really hope money and a degree from Harvard or Yale fills that emptiness.

5
1L job search / Re: Job offer but pay is low...should I counter?
« on: March 04, 2008, 09:39:46 PM »
Quote
Hell yes! Those T4's that think they are such "hot sh-t," I mean come on!  So, obnoxious, right?

Only thing worse are those people that will never love anyone more than themselves.  Peaches, I bet you can't help but make out with a mirror - irresistible!  mmmmm-tongue-mmmm smoochy smoochy mmmmm - peachy i luv u - mmmmm

Are you adding anything to the discussion? 

Nothing on the fourth tier, but it's objectively harder to get a high-paying job (or any decent paying legal job at all) out of the fourth tier because their graduates are objectively less desirable.  One of my parents graduated from a fourth tier law school and barely broke even for the first two years out.  Now moderately successful, but it 25 years to make it.  Chances are, if you start at the fourth tier you'll be working your way up, and getting legal experience at $10/hour for a summer with a potential job after graduation sounds like an OK way to start. 

It's not self-love... it's reality. Do you think the OP is freaking fantastic with a BA, a fourth tier law school, and Spanish?  Wow, what a killer combination!

It is a killer combo...

6
1L job search / Re: Job offer but pay is low...should I counter?
« on: March 04, 2008, 09:21:13 PM »
I disagree Peaches. But fair enough. I'm going to do what I think is best that'll be that. Good luck the rest of the semester.

You're trying to mislead a lot of people. Regardless of whether you're doing what you want or not, you're working a job that you likely could have gotten out of high school.

It's like getting a masters degree specifically to work at Starbucks; sure, you can do it, but you would be very overqualified.

I disagree but either way its ok. I don't mind. Education is a good thing.

7
1L job search / Re: Job offer but pay is low...should I counter?
« on: March 04, 2008, 08:29:22 PM »
I disagree Peaches. But fair enough. I'm going to do what I think is best that'll be that. Good luck the rest of the semester.

8
1L job search / Re: Job offer but pay is low...should I counter?
« on: March 04, 2008, 08:13:33 PM »
insulting the people who can't find jobs as having no personality or interview skills is not a wise idea. I know a LOT of these people, and I can say that for many of them, this is just untrue. It's a tight market right now, and while I don't think that's an excuse to sit on your butt, it does mean that a lot of desirable people can't find a paying job. Karma is a bitchh on this kind of stuff, so I suggest you stay humble at this early stage in your legal career and be grateful for someone giving you a break.
And no, I'm not bitter--I have a job, I just feel very badly for my friends who (through no fault of their own) don't.

Maybe their fault was slacking off in UG or not bothering to study hard for the LSAT and thus getting into a crap school where you can't get a job w/ top 10% and law review or whatever?

I mean, maybe their instant situation isn't their fault, but they got themselves into the mess either by slacking off too much in UG, on the LSAT, in law school, or not bothering to "network."

I'm going to keep harping on it...

I don't think tier has anything to do w/ finding work.

Then it's just that people from good schools are smarter and harder working? No offense, I didn't have much trouble finding a job paying a very good amount for my first summer, neither did my classmates. The only people without jobs through 2L OCI are either completely inept at interviews or are in the bottom 10%, and even those people end up in midlaw making $100k/year.

Your school has really indoctrinated you with the whole "you're just as good as people at top schools and will be able to find jobs as easily as them" propaganda, huh? Ironic given that the ONLY OFFER you've found is for a firm trying to pay you $10/hr...

That's fine, you are the one who made your choices, but saying that "tiers don't matter when finding jobs" when your life is proving the exact opposite is quite delusional, wouldn't you agree?

Not at all. I'm happy w/ my life. I'm happy w/ my choices. If what I can do this summer is worth 10 per hour I can live with it. Money is not the end all be all for me but merely an ends to a means.

If it makes you feel better to gloat and brag about your pay keep on keeping on. I'm happy that you got what you wanted. Even if I was homeless and poor I wouldn't have an ounce of regret in my body. I have an awesome apartment, great wife and friends, a kick ass dog, great porn and sports subscription. I want for nothing in my life. So ummmm yeah thats about it. :shrug:


9
1L job search / Re: Job offer but pay is low...should I counter?
« on: March 04, 2008, 07:50:35 PM »
insulting the people who can't find jobs as having no personality or interview skills is not a wise idea. I know a LOT of these people, and I can say that for many of them, this is just untrue. It's a tight market right now, and while I don't think that's an excuse to sit on your butt, it does mean that a lot of desirable people can't find a paying job. Karma is a bitchh on this kind of stuff, so I suggest you stay humble at this early stage in your legal career and be grateful for someone giving you a break.
And no, I'm not bitter--I have a job, I just feel very badly for my friends who (through no fault of their own) don't.

Maybe their fault was slacking off in UG or not bothering to study hard for the LSAT and thus getting into a crap school where you can't get a job w/ top 10% and law review or whatever?

I mean, maybe their instant situation isn't their fault, but they got themselves into the mess either by slacking off too much in UG, on the LSAT, in law school, or not bothering to "network."

I'm going to keep harping on it...

I don't think tier has anything to do w/ finding work.

10
1L job search / Re: Job offer but pay is low...should I counter?
« on: March 04, 2008, 07:46:48 PM »


I still want to make a counter just because I know that a few of the positions I have lined up pay atleast 12-15 per hour and I think one of those will pan out.


After hearing all the wisdom of your peers, I still think that is the right move.  I think it can be done with tact.  And, I think it can be done without conditioning acceptance of employment on the add'l $5/hr.  That is, "I accept, but how do you feel about $15/hr."  They may counter w/ $12/hr, in which case you are better off. 

From the firm's perspective: 
Paying you $15 is still a deal over the prior paralegal, especially if they are investing in your future, and acquiring someone w/your Spanish skills.



You think $15 is a deal for the firm to get a T4 grad when there are countless other T2,3,4 people without jobs? Even in this thread, people are complaining that they are either finding no work or taking unpaid things.

Honestly, I think if OP asks for a 50% raise, they will shoot him down.

That would be like me calling the firm I'm going to be working for this summer and telling them that $2,600/week isn't enough, I need $3,900 or else! Preposterous.

I don't really look at it like that at all. I look at it like this:

I'm a motived person w/ a BA capable of taking over for someone in a market that doesn't have many Spanish speakers. Being from a T4 doesn't matter to this firm, they respect my law school. This isn't about prestige its about doing what is right for your self. There are too many people in this forum who just undervalue themselves and that lack of confidence is precisely what is hurting them in interviews.

If you go into thinking you are only worth 10 dollars per hour you'll end up getting paid 5.50 or not get a job at all. Everyone in Law School is successful, they've completed a degree. They can ride and write well, these are  not marginal people, HAVE SOME PRIDE FOR GODS SAKE! 10 bones an hour is a joke to offer a college graduate.

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