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Messages - ANBUDOM

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11
2L job search / Re: POOR GRADES
« on: October 01, 2007, 08:49:19 PM »
consider leaving your gpa off of your resume and doing a direct write thing with that.  They will see the law review thing and think you are smart.

Nice backhanded insult.  Just because someone doesn't have the best grades in law school certainly doesn't make them dumb. 

Career planning offices generally recommend leaving your GPA off your resume if it's below a certain cutoff.  I have no idea what that cutoff is but if the OPs GPA is very low then it would be better not to include it.  Similarly, if you're outside the top third it's generally recommended not to put your ranking on your resume.

thorc is one of the more polite and civil posters on this site and generally gives good advice... just b/c thorc is giving some candid advice doesn't mean s/he is being asinine about it...

12
General Board / Re: Reading Tort Cases worthless?
« on: October 01, 2007, 08:45:32 PM »
It might really depend on your professor.  My torts professor spent a lot of time on the cases and the fact patterns so carefully reading and understanding the cases helped a lot.  For example, one of the essay questions on my torts exam took the briney case (the case where two dudes shot the third guy) and changed the fact pattern around a bit.  With that exam, having a good grasp of the black letter law and a familiarity with the cases helped you a lot. 

If you were a 2L then you may be able to get away with just reading commercial outlines and taking good notes but as a 1L i'd strongly recommend that you put in time reading the cases.  Also, torts cases are some of the more fun cases you get to read so it shouldn't be as painful and irritating as other courses. 


13
General Board / Re: Is something wrong?
« on: September 28, 2007, 12:01:45 PM »
honestly, I wouldn't be getting too comfortable yet.  come back in a month and see if you say the same thing.  I'm not sure I knew of anyone in my section who wasnt at least a little confused about something (and by the end of civ pro wanted to scream whenever they heard the word "erie").   

good luck to you though - it sounds like you are putting a lot of time/effort into all this.  I hope your exams show that

Yeah.  Wait until you get to Erie in civpro and you'll be like  ??? ??? ???

14
General Board / Re: My law school gripe!!
« on: September 27, 2007, 02:00:19 PM »
The good news is that the 2L curve is higher than the 1L curve (at least in my school) so it should be easier to attain a higher grade.

However, it's extremely unfair to have 1Ls compete with upperclassmen.  A lot of upperclassmen (myself included) are lazy as *&^% but they know how to take law school exams and they have more experience in reading cases.  I don't know why your school chose to do it but it just seems really unfair and annoying for the 1Ls.  As a 1L you're supposed to compete with the other 1Ls, not throw you into the fray with everyone. 

15
2L job search / Re: How to Decline Summer Associate Offer
« on: September 27, 2007, 12:24:47 PM »
i hope i have this problem, but email? seems impersonal and unprofessional. i would be offended if a firm notified me of a ding by email. calling, too, would be awkward.

shucks, i'm so fortunate to be so low class that i took the only offers i got so i was saved from this awkward situation.

why not send an email that personally describes reasons followed by a formal letter to confirm?

congrats on the multiple offers.

One offer is all you need.  Plus there are plenty of people with 0 offers.  Don't put yourself down!

As for canceling callbacks, I think e-mailing might be more practical than calling it in.  I declined 12 callbacks via phone and SIX of them called me back a month later asking if I was ready to come in for the callback... I think the recruiting ppl at these firms are extremely busy and sometimes they might forget to make a note of it on your file.  Leaving messages on their machines is equally unreliable. 

I don't know if other people had this problem but I think it makes life easier to e-mail rather than call it in. 

16
I don't know how other schools schedule their moot court competitions but biglaw OCI ends by the time moot court goes into full swing.  I'm not really sure how much moot court will help if you're pursuing a 2L firm job via OCI.  I'm sure it looks great if you're looking for government jobs though. 

17
2L job search / Re: After the offer...
« on: September 25, 2007, 10:03:06 PM »
Well, I was lucky enough to get one offer and after a ton of callbacks this week, hopefully there will be at least one more. Now, what questions do I ask after the offer? Everyone always says that there are questions that you should only ask after the offer, but what are they? What are ways to distinguish the firms after the fact? Is this the time to ask about billable expectations? Are the V10 really that much worse then V50 in terms of work?

(I am a first generation lawyer and no nothing about this whole process. Career services is even less help, so Im sorry for all the stupid questions!)

A lot of firms welcome you to come back to the firm and meet with more attorneys.  There you can ask them more questions about quality of life, prestige, and whatever else you'd like to ask.  I would strongly recommend that you get your info and rely on advice from attorneys that are actually working in the firm than any advice you'd get from here. 

Speaking to upperclassmen that have worked in the particular firm or in the market may also have some good advice for ya. 

Like you i'm also a first generation lawyer and i've already realized that speaking to practicing attorneys is much more reliable and useful than asking around here...

18
2L job search / Re: No Callbacks - Now what?
« on: September 25, 2007, 09:59:58 PM »
take all advice you hear with a grain of salt - mine included.  but since you're soliciting, i thought i'd offer some.

my stats: average grades, law review (write on), t25 school.

i'm doing biglaw charlotte next summer.  i didn't get the offer through oci/direct mail; quite frankly, i think sending out 15 resumes a day is a complete waste of your time.  i'm not from charlotte (not even close), but contrary to what anbudom is telling you, (1) charlotte doesn't necessarily take longer than dc/nyc.  i had offers, as did several friends, from biglaw charlotte by late august.  if anything, firms are more likely to do callbacks/give offers early in the cycle, rather than later. (2) not being from charlotte isn't really going to hurt you (if you've been to uptown charlotte, you'll discover that no one is really from charlotte); what you need to do is show you are committed to being there.  i went to charlotte myself, on my own dime, and arranged for interviews.  out of those, i got callbacks, and out of those callbacks, i got offers.

i don't want to be harsh, but also contrary to anbudom, you should be discouraged if you haven't heard back yet.  but rather than doing direct mails, call the firms you're waiting on to get an update!  visit!  make contacts!  don't "bomb people's inboxes" - how is that going to distinguish you from other candidates?  there's no secret to this process; as has already been mentioned, you've got the #s/credentials to work at any firm in nashville/charlotte.  your resume has opened the door, now you have to step through it. good luck man.

ouch... burnnnnn...

well ibu certainly has more experience than me in the charlotte market so i'll defer to his judgment.  But like we been saying, you do have the #'s and credentials to make it so with some effort you should be able to land at least one offer there.  Just make sure you are very convincing and persuasive when you tell them why you're interested in Charlotte during your interviews. 

19
It is definitely a good sign if you go to class and you know wtf is going on.  A lot of students go to class even after having done the readings and will not know what the professor is talking about.  When it comes time to study for exams they will need to put in a lot more effort just to understand enough material to do well on the exam. 

It's a good thing that you're starting to look at past exams but I think it's a little too early for that.  You might be freaking yourself out prematurely.  After you complete your outline and you understand the black letter law, looking at past exams will help you to apply your knowledge to hypotheticals.  If possible try to look at A-exams so you can get a feel for what type of answers law professors are looking for.

20
Thomas M. Cooley / Re: Thomas Cooley Students
« on: September 25, 2007, 03:13:11 PM »
Uh, yeah, I had to laugh when I was looking up law schools about the ranking, too.  I think when I started 4 years ago they were in the "top 3", or whatever.  Silliness.  OTOH, about as silly and arbitrary as the rankings in USN & WR every year. Look, if you're not in a top 20 law school, does it really matter what ranking you are?  Michigan State University Law School went ape sh*t a couple of years ago when they moved from a 4th tier law school to a third tier (mainly because they changed their name from Detroit College of Law to MSU Law School).  The big three are class rank, Law Review, and moot court or mock trial experience. And even if you don't score on those three, you can still get a good job, you just have to hustle a little more.

While I don't think I'm the smartest person in the world, I am very driven.  I really want to succeed.  I may need help of the teachers to do that, I'll be honest. 

First, don't put yourself down when you haven't even started school yet.  Second, I noticed that even students that aren't terribly bright did well in law school (and in life) because they work really hard.  A lot of very talented kids are lazy as *&^% and it comes back to bite them in the ass later.  In law school you obviously need a certain minimum level of intelligence which no amount of hard-work will compensate for but otherwise you should be fine.  I think if you keep on top of your work and continue to be driven you should be just fine. 

Good luck! 

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