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Messages - Tony Montana

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51
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: Black Men in Law School
« on: June 13, 2007, 08:34:28 AM »
and what is the way that things are done?? you guys are killing me with this yessir boss mentality here..you're preaching to these guys as if they are unrefined and unprofessional..as if you are the first negro to make it into law school so it's your duty to school  your brethren about how to beat this law school game..

any black man that's made it through college should know how to carry himself...any black man that's taken the lsat and earned his way into law school knows what he needs to do to make it through..

with that said..wearing khakis and polos or wearing a hoodie with some jeans doesn't matter.. the moment you enter a classroom your professor will know you're black...

i'd like to think that guys have reached a point where they have the gumption to dress in a manner that's appropriate..

and dressing in a way that's "less threatening" is all fine and good..but I'm more concerned about what's going to come out of your mouth rather than having to sit through a tangent of the wrong answer since you didn't complete the assignment prior to class.. nothing got on my nerves in law school more than a person who came unprepared KNOWING the professor used Socratic method...




Your reasoning is usually pretty sound, but here, you equate academic smarts (lsat and college) with the wisdom to understand all the nuances of appearance: When, like madness stated, an individual can traverse through college and the lsat without appreciating the nuances of appearance.

And, yes, ultimately your substance is more important than your appearance.  That said, it is your appearance that gives the first impression...I am sure you know what they say about first impression.



52
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: Black Men in Law School
« on: June 13, 2007, 08:21:29 AM »
Good post Madness.

53
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: Black Men in Law School
« on: June 12, 2007, 08:42:34 PM »

Opoto is no where near Urkel  ::)

have you met this kid?  picture steve urkel with a fro wearing pants too big

edit: or did you mean personality wise?  :D

 :D :D That was suppose to be a joke...  :D You wrong for that one OSA.
  

54
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: Black Men in Law School
« on: June 12, 2007, 08:11:07 PM »
???

Why do any of you have to plan out your effects on white people? Can't you just do you?

Are you asking why Black Men should be concerned about how they are perceived by their white peers in an environment that has just recently accepted them, but still fails to see them as talented individuals and not just mere "% of minorities" for an incoming class?

If you are in Law School, then you already know that simply "just do you" ain't always gonna work. It's not an easy reality to deal with, but it's still the reality of the Profession we've chosen.

Errr.... I do me all the time and I get around just find. You sound kinda Toby right now. Imma need you to get down with the Kunta.

Well, when you're Steve Urkel doing you fits in with the system

Opoto is no where near Urkel  ::)

Imma need you to get off Opoto's jock right now  :P

imma need you stop being an a-hole...k?

Always tryna change a brotha  ::)

55
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: Black Men in Law School
« on: June 12, 2007, 08:08:25 PM »
Interesting.  This is one of the reasons why I chose a good HB Law School to go to over some T14 schools--especially after dealing with a similar situation in a PW graduate school.


Which is fine and dandy, but I'm willing to bet money that your Professors at your school are saying the same thing. That because you are a Black Man, you don't have the luxury of being "Normal" or acting the way that you normally would in a more homogenius environment.

If you plan on opening your own Firm straight out the door, then you can do what you want. But if you want to work for or be a part of the "System" then yer going to have to adapt to the way things are done.

If you read my post I am actually agreeing with your assertions about not being able to act myself as a black man without suffering the same consequences.  That said, I can be more of myself at Howard than say University of Georgia.

???

Why do any of you have to plan out your effects on white people? Can't you just do you?

Are you asking why Black Men should be concerned about how they are perceived by their white peers in an environment that has just recently accepted them, but still fails to see them as talented individuals and not just mere "% of minorities" for an incoming class?

If you are in Law School, then you already know that simply "just do you" ain't always gonna work. It's not an easy reality to deal with, but it's still the reality of the Profession we've chosen.

Errr.... I do me all the time and I get around just find. You sound kinda Toby right now. Imma need you to get down with the Kunta.

Well, when you're Steve Urkel doing you fits in with the system

Opoto is no where near Urkel  ::)

Imma need you to get off Opoto's jock right now  :P

imma need you stop being an a-hole...k?

HEY, HEY, HEY! Keep it Civil Bruthas! We're here to Build, not Tare down.

It's all in good fun...  I am similar to Opoto in that way...

56
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: Black Men in Law School
« on: June 12, 2007, 07:56:08 PM »
???

Why do any of you have to plan out your effects on white people? Can't you just do you?

Are you asking why Black Men should be concerned about how they are perceived by their white peers in an environment that has just recently accepted them, but still fails to see them as talented individuals and not just mere "% of minorities" for an incoming class?

If you are in Law School, then you already know that simply "just do you" ain't always gonna work. It's not an easy reality to deal with, but it's still the reality of the Profession we've chosen.

Errr.... I do me all the time and I get around just find. You sound kinda Toby right now. Imma need you to get down with the Kunta.

Well, when you're Steve Urkel doing you fits in with the system

Opoto is no where near Urkel  ::)

Imma need you to get off Opoto's jock right now  :P

57
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: Black Men in Law School
« on: June 12, 2007, 07:53:39 PM »
Ummm ... I guess I'll just have to be hard-headed on this one. Personally, my one and only concern will be doing well in my classes.

That's cool.  As long as you are aware of all POSSIBLE consequences...  And, yes, doing well in classes is #1.

58
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: Black Men in Law School
« on: June 12, 2007, 07:48:52 PM »
???

Why do any of you have to plan out your effects on white people? Can't you just do you?

Are you asking why Black Men should be concerned about how they are perceived by their white peers in an environment that has just recently accepted them, but still fails to see them as talented individuals and not just mere "% of minorities" for an incoming class?

If you are in Law School, then you already know that simply "just do you" ain't always gonna work. It's not an easy reality to deal with, but it's still the reality of the Profession we've chosen.

Errr.... I do me all the time and I get around just find. You sound kinda Toby right now. Imma need you to get down with the Kunta.

Well, when you're Steve Urkel doing you fits in with the system

59
Black Law Student Discussion Board / Re: Black Men in Law School
« on: June 12, 2007, 07:46:37 PM »
I wanted to post this in the "Black Men's" Thread, but that thread is over 100+ pages long and its filled with debates about Barack Obama and interracial dating and things like that. i think this topic deserves to be focused on by itself. Altho a lot of stuff can be applied generally to all Black folx, a lot of it is specific for us.

Bruthas! Please recognize that the rules for Law School are different for us than it is for other people, even our own Sistas. First off, we are an endangered species in Law School. In my incoming class there were 37 black students, out of that #, 12 of us were men.

You have to carry yourself in a different manner. One example is when I would speak to my Torts Professor. He was a nice decent guy, but whenever I would talk to him I could tell that he would act funny if I stood near him. As if I was really going to attack him. But then again, in his eyes, when was the last time he saw a tall bald, black man w/ a deep voice, except or on television or on a basketball court?

I'm not saying that the halls of Law School will be flooded with racial epithets or Klansman or anything like that, but you have to recognize that statistically we aren't supposed to be here. We are supposed to be in prison, or dead, or runnin' around w/ 2 baby mommas by now. The fact that we are articulate and intelligent is beyond the comprehension of some folx.

During Trial Advocacy competitions I've learned that I have to tread lightly compared to other races or even the other gender. I've had Judges tell me that I scared them b/c of my voice, I've learned that I have to keep a certain distance between me and the judges especially if they are white women.

We also have the stigmatism working against us that we're all rappers or ball players. So to counter-act that I would recommend that at least once or twice a week wear something more than just jeans to class. I'm not saying wear a 3-piece  suit, but put on some slacks and a collared shirt. A large part of law school is about presentation. You don't know who knows who. The person sitting next to you might be friends with the Lawyer who gives you an interview, or your professor might be a former Associate/Partner at the law firm that yer interested in. How you carry and present yourself is a part of how people will perceive you and tell other people about you.

Also, white people LOVE to brag about having a Black Friend! Why not be that one drinking-buddy that your friends have? Help ease white-guilt by being the person that they can point to in order to pove that they're not racist.

"But TruOne, isn't that degrading to be a puppet or a Token Negro?"

Not if you are using it to your advantage. AGain, you have no idea who they know or what they might have to offer you. You dont' have to be ANYBODY's bestfriend, but at the end of the day you want people to say something positive about you instead of just saying, "Oh yeah, he's the Black Guy in my class."

That's all I got for now, I'm sure more brothers can contribute to the discussion.


Interesting.  This is one of the reasons why I chose a good HB Law School to go to over some T14 schools--especially after dealing with a similar situation in a PW graduate school.

Hopefully none of you cats are being sandbagged or stonewalled based on these perceptions.  


???

Why do any of you have to plan out your effects on white people? Can't you just do you?

Ideally, yes.  However, when you are dealing with humans, you have to be more sophisticated when dealing with their perceptions and biases.  Unless you want to be shut out of the system...

60
Given the fact that this poster has posted this in multiple threads I'll give you my reasoning for being so irritated..

1- she's a female
2- she's biracial
3- she states that every black female she's ever encountered has "hated" on her..
4- the fact that she's 1&2 gives me the notion that unless she grew up in bumblefuck Alaska she's encountered some black women that have @ the very least been considerate towards her..

.I personally hated some of my undergraduate experiences and took issue with some of the students at one of my institutions of learning--- however I'd be a complete neurotic a-hole if I gave off the vibe that everyday was hell for me there.... if it was I would have transferred...

which brings me to issue 5- and upon reading your post I have to incorporate you into this question... wtf is acting black and wtf is acting white? it blows me that some of us have these standards of what black is and what black a'int.... and as a member of a BGLO (that was founded at Howard University who's National HQ sits on the same block as mine)I am truly surprised to read that statement coming from you..

what "dialect" are white people speaking?  ???

and regardless of what anyone thinks... if a person has access to the internet and can find this website... they can also go to Howard Law School's website http://www.law.howard.edu where they will see that they follow the same ABA requirements of any other ABA accredited law school in this country... http://www.law.howard.edu/law_school_curriculum

so what a dumbass for thinking that Howard Law would be a law school that teaches black history instead of law....

and let's call this sh*t for what it is.. she's considering Howard because of her LSAT scores.. she's trying to play up the fact that she's black (for once in her life) and is hoping that an institution with connections such as Howard will accept her because she knows that Harvard will not...

 


I agree with bolded part. The truth is with internet access she can read Howard’s' mission statement (and other parts of the site) to find out more about Howard.

Plus, I'm sure good2go has heard racial or ignorant statements from white peers/family/etc., and don't think she judges entire PWI using such generalizations.

That said, I appreciate intuition.  If her instincts are telling her it is a bad idea going to Howard; then, don’t go… Her issues may just end up becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.


ETA:  I noticed good2go covered most of the issues I presented.  However, my final paragraph is still applicable.



I think a lot of issues could come up. At this point, I almost would rather struggle with that at Howard and have a little harder time and resolve these damn issues than go my whole life with these stupid beliefs intact. I guess I can balance getting a law degree and getting an identity. But after all this, I'm starting to think I'm probably too young and stupid to be going to law school. I'm only 19 and will be turning 20 summer after senior year so I'll only be 20 when I go. I skipped a grade or two in elementary school .....crazy neurotic types are usually pretty smart right?? the only thing in life I couldnt really conquer was the lsat.. I'm cocky though I just went in and didn't study or really look at the thing and got a 158.. I might rectify that in the fall and retake. despite a comment earlier.. I'm looking at Howard for reasons other than my lsat...

In all honesty, that is something that you will have to come to terms with eventually. All I know is that Law school is tough enough without having to deal with other substantial issues whether it's preconceived or not.  

The good news is that you are young and wisdom (in these matters) will come with age and experience.  And, preparing and retaking your LSAT is a good idea: This way, you can have more good options.

In the end do your research and trust your instincts.

Best wishes

::walks away into the night::
 

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