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Messages - Towelie

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91
I guess I'd like to retract that statement if possible.  :D

Ordinarily I would let you, but I'm still mad at Penn for WLing me and I'm going to take it out on you.  ;)

Hey now, it's not my fault you got yield-protected. 

Yeah I know, but gotta pick on somebody.  ;)

Wait a second...  Cady goes to Penn too...

One good thing about Cady, when you hit her, I feel no pain.

(That started off as a Bob Marley lyric, but I like it better this way).

92
Where should I go next fall? / Re: SMU vs. Arizona?
« on: April 21, 2007, 11:43:34 PM »
Ok, so I've narrowed down my school's to SMU and Arizona, both of which I didn't even think I would get into, so both are completely fine with me.  My question is, what are my chances of going to SMU and finding a good job in Arizona if I decide move there, and what are my chances of getting a job in Dallas if I go to Arizona? Obviously if I want to live in Arizona i should go to arizona, but my question is basically whether each one travels well to the other location.  good job = $70K for me. 

If you want three years of ridiculously hot women, great weather, non-stop partying, and amazing mexican food, UofA is for you (I myself am an alum, though not of the Law School, obviously). But I have no idea how it travels to Dallas. Also, Arizona's law building is perhaps the ugliest law facility in the country.

93
I guess I'd like to retract that statement if possible.  :D

Ordinarily I would let you, but I'm still mad at Penn for WLing me and I'm going to take it out on you.  ;)

Hey now, it's not my fault you got yield-protected. But that does suck - I'm sure you will really be struggling for employment and prestige coming from CLS. That Penn waitlist will likely hold you back for all of your worldly existance and possibly even deny you access to heaven. Enjoy purgatory!

94
towelie, why does UVa being a UVa being a state school make a difference career placement wise?

Okay, so it may not matter career placement wise, but quite honestly if I were a hiring partner at a firm and were at a school where 25%-40% of the class got in under less-intense admissions requirements, I wouldn't give the students the benefit of the doubt as much as I would from other schools. But you guys are right, it probably doesn't make a difference, since this pot smoking towel is not a hiring partner. One day it might though! I guess I'd like to retract that statement if possible.  :D

95
Columbia if you can swing about $20k from them. UVa is arguably (along with Boalt) the worst T10 school for BIGLAW. That said, it still is an amazing school and you will get an amazing experience. If you really hate NYC and get offered money from Columbia, then still go to UVa, but your career options will be better coming from CLS - no doubt about that.

why so?

Placement? UVa allows pre-screening and Boalt's strength is more in PI. In any event, they are both great schools and being at the bottom of the T10 in terms of BIGLAW placement in nothing to be ashamed about. But UVa's class size, along with pre-screening, 25th percentile starting salary, and a crappy experience by XO'ers getting jobs at OCI last year at UVa lead me to believe it is at the bottom of the class for T10 schools.

Towelie, just curious, but do you think that self selection has anything to do with UVa's placement?  It seems like a higher number of their students self select into secondary markets with lower salaries and possibly better QoL...just a thought.

First off, secondary market does not alwasy equal lower pay. I'm working in a secondary market this summer as a 1L and am making more than the 25th percentile of UVa students. Second, while self-selection may have something to do with it, lower paying firms do not have better QoL. I know too many lawyers from Florida Law who are working at lower paying firms and putting in 9am-7pm/8pm hours during the week and one weekend day. I think there's a big myth that midlaw pays less because the QoL is better.

While some may be self-selection, UVa's pre-screening system, coupled with a larger class size, being a state school, and trouble getting jobs from the recent class all lead to believe that even if you account for self-selection, it still is nowhere near CLS in terms of firm placement.

i was under the impression that pre-screening wasn't really a disservice b/c if the firm wasn't going to take you anyway, why waste your time and theirs?   Also, why does it being a state school make a difference?  (I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to get info since I'm most likely going to go to UVa and I want to know all relevent facts before withdrawing from UChi, UMich and Duke).

But the bolded is not always the case.  There are people who inhterview well and know their *&^% but have a subpar (according to firm cutoff) gpa.  For those schools who don't allow prescreening, some people can go in and WOW their interviewer to the point where if they see their grades and it's a 3.25 instead of a 3.4, they will take them anyway bc they think they will fit in and do excellent work.  A system that prescreens totally takes away that possibility of someone nailing the interview despite a lower gpa than cutoff.

Exactly. I came from a crappy undergrad, worked retail before law school, but am an incredible interviewer and was one of the first, if not THE first to get a top paying job for the summer from my school. Though this was before grades, it gives me completel confidence that I can walk into an interview that I may not be qualified for grade-wise in the Fall and at least have SOME chance. If I went to UVa, I might have no chance at all.

96
New Question:  Who else loves good beer?

I'm drinking some Old Speckled Hen right now and I must say that its pretty darn good.

I LOVE good beer. There are some pretty awesome Belgian breweries in Philly (Monk's and Eulogy). You should DEFINITELY check them out if you are a beer lover, but make sure to bring your wallet cause that *&^% is pricey.

97
Columbia if you can swing about $20k from them. UVa is arguably (along with Boalt) the worst T10 school for BIGLAW. That said, it still is an amazing school and you will get an amazing experience. If you really hate NYC and get offered money from Columbia, then still go to UVa, but your career options will be better coming from CLS - no doubt about that.

why so?

Placement? UVa allows pre-screening and Boalt's strength is more in PI. In any event, they are both great schools and being at the bottom of the T10 in terms of BIGLAW placement in nothing to be ashamed about. But UVa's class size, along with pre-screening, 25th percentile starting salary, and a crappy experience by XO'ers getting jobs at OCI last year at UVa lead me to believe it is at the bottom of the class for T10 schools.

Towelie, just curious, but do you think that self selection has anything to do with UVa's placement?  It seems like a higher number of their students self select into secondary markets with lower salaries and possibly better QoL...just a thought.

First off, secondary market does not alwasy equal lower pay. I'm working in a secondary market this summer as a 1L and am making more than the 25th percentile of UVa students. Second, while self-selection may have something to do with it, lower paying firms do not have better QoL. I know too many lawyers from Florida Law who are working at lower paying firms and putting in 9am-7pm/8pm hours during the week and one weekend day. I think there's a big myth that midlaw pays less because the QoL is better.

While some may be self-selection, UVa's pre-screening system, coupled with a larger class size, being a state school, and trouble getting jobs from the recent class all lead to believe that even if you account for self-selection, it still is nowhere near CLS in terms of firm placement.

that's why i said *possibloy*  ;)

good info tho.

Thanks. Yeah, don't buy that a lower paying firm = better quality of life. I mean, a 160k firm in NYC v. a 145k firm in a secondary market would have a better quality of life, but that has more to do with it being outside of NYC than the lower pay.

98
Thanks for all the info guys.  Hey Towelie I was wondering how you like bing in Philly and what you think about the city.  My fiance and I are just trying to get a different culture expereience outside of Texas so we are definitely not goiing to a Texas school.  Again we might stay if we like the city but it won't be hard for me to go back to Houston at all (unless of course I do horrible in law school and then it will prob. be hard for me to find a job anywhere).  I've got really really good connections in the city.  That being said I'm just looking for the best combination of quality of life/culture experience/education and I want a place where my fiance can find a pretty interesting job.  Anyways thanks again for all the info guys.

I love Philly, but Villanova is actually in a different part of the city than Penn. Villanova is suburbia whereas I live in the actual city. Quality of life at Villanova would be hard to compare to Penn because of that. But the Villanova campus is gorgeous and the area is great, so long as you are okay being in a suburban part of a city.

99
Columbia if you can swing about $20k from them. UVa is arguably (along with Boalt) the worst T10 school for BIGLAW. That said, it still is an amazing school and you will get an amazing experience. If you really hate NYC and get offered money from Columbia, then still go to UVa, but your career options will be better coming from CLS - no doubt about that.

why so?

Placement? UVa allows pre-screening and Boalt's strength is more in PI. In any event, they are both great schools and being at the bottom of the T10 in terms of BIGLAW placement in nothing to be ashamed about. But UVa's class size, along with pre-screening, 25th percentile starting salary, and a crappy experience by XO'ers getting jobs at OCI last year at UVa lead me to believe it is at the bottom of the class for T10 schools.

Towelie, just curious, but do you think that self selection has anything to do with UVa's placement?  It seems like a higher number of their students self select into secondary markets with lower salaries and possibly better QoL...just a thought.

First off, secondary market does not alwasy equal lower pay. I'm working in a secondary market this summer as a 1L and am making more than the 25th percentile of UVa students. Second, while self-selection may have something to do with it, lower paying firms do not have better QoL. I know too many lawyers from Florida Law who are working at lower paying firms and putting in 9am-7pm/8pm hours during the week and one weekend day. I think there's a big myth that midlaw pays less because the QoL is better.

While some may be self-selection, UVa's pre-screening system, coupled with a larger class size, being a state school, and trouble getting jobs from the recent class all lead to believe that even if you account for self-selection, it still is nowhere near CLS in terms of firm placement.

100
Where should I go next fall? / Re: NYU vs Penn
« on: April 21, 2007, 10:03:29 PM »
This was an easy choice for me, and usually I'd Penn-troll here, but I can't imagine spending seven straight years in the same place.  Go to NYU.

I actually agree with this statement, unless you absolutely love Philly or Penn Law or Penn is offering you significantly more money. Life is all about experiences, man. Granted my friends who are double Penners are glad they came here (and some did choose it over NYU), but New York might be good for you.

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