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Messages - Towelie

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81
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Transferring
« on: April 27, 2007, 02:43:04 PM »
One of my professors next semester got her undergrad at Yale, her MD at Harvard and then transfered from Harvard to Columbia after her first year of law school. I think she did this to become a consulting neurologist at the Cornell Hospital in NYC, but she got on law review at Columbia and has so far argued 15 cases in front of the Supreme Court.

Transfering from Harvard, you can still lead a great career - just make sure it is worth not having a Harvard Law degree.

82
One of my friends who is a lawyer is an open marijuana smoker, and I am just curious if he ever were to be caught for posession, could he get disbarred for that? If so, doesn't really seem like it is worth the risk at all to me.

Do you want to get high? I'm so high right now I have no idea what's going on.

83
Towelie, thanks for the info about the MBE program, which i am considering since i'm fiddling with the idea of doing health law.

::runs to do research on the MBE program, then remember pookie has senioritis::

Just make sure you say that in your application! Apparently, an academic interest in the subject doesn't cut it... at least not this year - I know it has in the past (due to a friend's experience).

84
Ragarding joint degrees I'm either doing the joint JD/MES or the certificate in Environmental Policy.

As for loans that was me vaguely recollecting the fin aid presentation Mr Henry gave at ASW.

My only concern with joint degrees is that it throws off the recruiting cycle.  I know the 1 and 2Ls are all stuck in exams right now, but if someone could give us an idea of how that works, that would be great.  I think I remember reading somewhere on here that it can be problematic.

Towelie is here, no worries. I'm just in the middle of something called finals, no big deal.

In any event, I was just accepted to a joint-degree. I will be pursuing a M.S. in Criminology in addition to a J.D. I will graduate in the same amount of time with no summer classes (just have to take 1 extra class each semester, which really isn't a big deal to me). I am doing it because I am interested in studying economic and legal solutions to poverty and crime, which is a broad topic, but I think they can potentially be addressed through decriminalization and regulation of illegal narcotics, so I hope to focus my research on that.

In any event, I was originally an applicant to the JD/MBE program and did not get in because they had SO many applicants and in my application I stated that I did not wish to work in health law upon graduation (I want to do international business transactions, I think) and they held spots for people whose career it was necessary for. On the other hand, they swayed me to the MS in Criminology program and I am so happy with it. I start in the fall.

If you graduate in the same amount of time it does not throw of the recruiting cycle but if you are graduating in 4 years it does. The only way it won't is if you spend your first year exclusively focused on the degree that isnt law, the second year on law, and the 3rd and 4th on a mixture.

85
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Transferring
« on: April 23, 2007, 11:21:31 PM »
Quote
If transfers were so great, they would have been admitted the first time around.

This was a joke right? Or do you seriously feel that a candidate's total ability is perfectly reflected in whatever score he or she got on the LSAT?

It was a joke! Hence the wink! Ugh.

I know transfers can be successful - a friend of mine transfered to Penn and graduated in the top 10%, got a federal clerkship, and will be working at a top firm in the fall. I just don't like that when you pick a school based on the size that they can increase it your second and third year. There are only so many places in classes, spots at OCI, etc. If you pick a school because it is small, I think it should stay that way. Sure 20-30 people might not make a huge difference but depending on how big your class is to begin with it could be a lot. 50 (like GULC does) is just ridiculous!
So you really weren't joking... you don't want transfers coming to your school. So why pretend like a winking face changes that?

Actually, my point is I would prefer if they only admitted around as many transfers as people who dropped out or transfered out the previous year.

86
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Transferring
« on: April 23, 2007, 12:01:47 PM »
Quote
If transfers were so great, they would have been admitted the first time around.

This was a joke right? Or do you seriously feel that a candidate's total ability is perfectly reflected in whatever score he or she got on the LSAT?

It was a joke! Hence the wink! Ugh.

I know transfers can be successful - a friend of mine transfered to Penn and graduated in the top 10%, got a federal clerkship, and will be working at a top firm in the fall. I just don't like that when you pick a school based on the size that they can increase it your second and third year. There are only so many places in classes, spots at OCI, etc. If you pick a school because it is small, I think it should stay that way. Sure 20-30 people might not make a huge difference but depending on how big your class is to begin with it could be a lot. 50 (like GULC does) is just ridiculous!

87
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Transferring
« on: April 23, 2007, 12:01:20 PM »
To keep some options open, I've used publicly available data, and school websites to compile a list of which top 30 or so schools are friendly to transfer students.

The schools which are extremely friendly and actively look to expand their class with transfers are GULC, UCLA, WUSTL, and UIUC.

The ones that seem to like transfers are Columbia, NYU, Boalt, Michigan, Emory (if you are a good student they'll talk to you), Vanderbilt (maybe), Minnesota, Notre Dame, and Iowa.

The ones that will take a few more than dropouts are Yale, Chicago, and Cornell

The ones that seem extremely transfer unfriendly are Stanford, Texas, Duke, Harvard (they do take a few, but they want you to be a competitive candidate for admission minus 1L grades; so they take LSAT and UGPA into account, when most others don't), and then Washington and Wisconsin.

I could not place these schools into a category, maybe someone else will have some insight.  Penn, UVA, Northwestern (but they still care about work experience), USC, GW, BU, BC, W&L, W&M, UNC (they care about the LSAT and NC residency), and Fordham.

I would put Penn with Yale, Chicago, and Cornell in terms of policies. We usually have 6-7 leave a year and enroll about 15 transfers. Though I've spoken to Dean Post about this and she has hopes of increasing the transfer program, though I am desperately trying to talk her out of it. When I picked Penn it was, in part, because it was not that transfer friendly. I think if you pick a school for its class size, it should stay that way for OCI when, aside from in your actual class, it is a time that class size matters immensley.

Hating on transfers is incredibly short-sighted. Transfers represent an already accomplished and highly motivated element of a 2L/3L class. Our transfer class at UIUC this year is probably 1/2 of the moot court traveling team, CALI-ed a half dozen classes, and has SA positions with some of the best firms in Chicago.

Fear of them adding competition during OCI is just a lame Marxist argument. Having the best people possible competing for firm positions leads to the best people, going to the best firms, leaving your prestigious Penn with a continued great reputation. If some T2s best you for a SA position, it's probably a position you don't deserve to just fall into due to lack of alternatives.

If transfers were so great, they would have been admitted the first time around.  ;) Besides, I'm not saying these people shouldn't have a chance to thrive, I was just looking to go to a school that had very limited transfer students which at the current time includes Penn. I'm not worried about losing a job to a transfer, but to me less transfers are better for OCI all around.
That's ridiculous. Without knowing anything about you, I'm quite certain that I could compete on your intellect level. To pretend like LSAT is the be all, end all is elitist & insecure. Frankly, I'm glad that I don't go to school with people who seek validation through a test they took junior or early senior year of college.

The fact remains that many students from lower T1s & T2s are quite competent & might even contribute something to your classroom environment.

I never said they weren't or you couldn't! I was joking when I said "if they were so great they should have gotten in the first time around." Hence the "wink." Though it is hard to detect jokes online, it is pretty easy to detect when someone is insecure or lacks a little sense of humor.  ;)

88
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Transferring
« on: April 22, 2007, 07:16:22 PM »
To keep some options open, I've used publicly available data, and school websites to compile a list of which top 30 or so schools are friendly to transfer students.

The schools which are extremely friendly and actively look to expand their class with transfers are GULC, UCLA, WUSTL, and UIUC.

The ones that seem to like transfers are Columbia, NYU, Boalt, Michigan, Emory (if you are a good student they'll talk to you), Vanderbilt (maybe), Minnesota, Notre Dame, and Iowa.

The ones that will take a few more than dropouts are Yale, Chicago, and Cornell

The ones that seem extremely transfer unfriendly are Stanford, Texas, Duke, Harvard (they do take a few, but they want you to be a competitive candidate for admission minus 1L grades; so they take LSAT and UGPA into account, when most others don't), and then Washington and Wisconsin.

I could not place these schools into a category, maybe someone else will have some insight.  Penn, UVA, Northwestern (but they still care about work experience), USC, GW, BU, BC, W&L, W&M, UNC (they care about the LSAT and NC residency), and Fordham.

I would put Penn with Yale, Chicago, and Cornell in terms of policies. We usually have 6-7 leave a year and enroll about 15 transfers. Though I've spoken to Dean Post about this and she has hopes of increasing the transfer program, though I am desperately trying to talk her out of it. When I picked Penn it was, in part, because it was not that transfer friendly. I think if you pick a school for its class size, it should stay that way for OCI when, aside from in your actual class, it is a time that class size matters immensley.

Hating on transfers is incredibly short-sighted. Transfers represent an already accomplished and highly motivated element of a 2L/3L class. Our transfer class at UIUC this year is probably 1/2 of the moot court traveling team, CALI-ed a half dozen classes, and has SA positions with some of the best firms in Chicago.

Fear of them adding competition during OCI is just a lame Marxist argument. Having the best people possible competing for firm positions leads to the best people, going to the best firms, leaving your prestigious Penn with a continued great reputation. If some T2s best you for a SA position, it's probably a position you don't deserve to just fall into due to lack of alternatives.

If transfers were so great, they would have been admitted the first time around.  ;) Besides, I'm not saying these people shouldn't have a chance to thrive, I was just looking to go to a school that had very limited transfer students which at the current time includes Penn. I'm not worried about losing a job to a transfer, but to me less transfers are better for OCI all around.

89
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Transferring
« on: April 22, 2007, 07:03:24 PM »
To keep some options open, I've used publicly available data, and school websites to compile a list of which top 30 or so schools are friendly to transfer students.

The schools which are extremely friendly and actively look to expand their class with transfers are GULC, UCLA, WUSTL, and UIUC.

The ones that seem to like transfers are Columbia, NYU, Boalt, Michigan, Emory (if you are a good student they'll talk to you), Vanderbilt (maybe), Minnesota, Notre Dame, and Iowa.

The ones that will take a few more than dropouts are Yale, Chicago, and Cornell

The ones that seem extremely transfer unfriendly are Stanford, Texas, Duke, Harvard (they do take a few, but they want you to be a competitive candidate for admission minus 1L grades; so they take LSAT and UGPA into account, when most others don't), and then Washington and Wisconsin.

I could not place these schools into a category, maybe someone else will have some insight.  Penn, UVA, Northwestern (but they still care about work experience), USC, GW, BU, BC, W&L, W&M, UNC (they care about the LSAT and NC residency), and Fordham.

I would put Penn with Yale, Chicago, and Cornell in terms of policies. We usually have 6-7 leave a year and enroll about 15 transfers. Though I've spoken to Dean Post about this and she has hopes of increasing the transfer program, though I am desperately trying to talk her out of it. When I picked Penn it was, in part, because it was not that transfer friendly. I think if you pick a school for its class size, it should stay that way for OCI when, aside from in your actual class, it is a time that class size matters immensley.

90
Where should I go next fall? / Re: NYU vs Penn
« on: April 21, 2007, 11:58:49 PM »
Hi all. First of all, thanks so much for the thoughtful comments. It's really appreciated and helpful.

I did get a chance to visit NYU during the Admitted Student Day, and had a great time. I really liked what I saw a lot. I was admitted to Penn after the ASW, so I didn't get a chance to check it out. Granted I am an UG here at Penn and have had a great time, but I feel like the law school is a significantly different world so I can't assume I've seen it.

Basically I'm interested in a close-knit, non-competitive feel. I've heard that is very much the case at Penn, but also somewhat the case at NYU. I just don't want to go to a school where I'm lost and have trouble meeting people (which I would be more worried about at NYU). However, I also agree that it's probably important to move on, and maybe in that respect it's a better idea for me to get out of the area. I think at the moment I'm leaning towards NYU, but I think that more than anything that's because I think that maybe I'd grow more as a person in a different area for 3 years. Does that seem like a legitimate reason? I don't want to choose NYU if the experience would be significantly better at Penn.

So yeah...interested in corporate law, close-knit community, etc. I'm learning towards NYU but worried that maybe it'll be too disparate and spread out; I don't know NYC that well and don't want to feel totally lost.

Thanks so much guys.



I mean, if Penn excels at anything it is corporate law and being a close-knit community. So, given that, that IS a tough choice. But I don't think it is ridiculous at all to think you may grow more in a different location. Then again, if my undergrad had a top law school, I probably would have stayed just because I had some amazing friends and an amazing experience I wouldn't want to leave behind until I absolutely had to.

In any event, it is a tough call. That sucks you weren't admitted until after ASW (I never got to go to ASW either), so if you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me, as I was one of the people in charge of the ASW at Penn. Everyone I know who has gone to NYU loves it and everyone I know who goes to Penn loves it. That sounds as win-win as it gets to me!

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