Law School Discussion

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Messages - Towelie

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61
Book briefing is labeling (usually through highlighting with a designated color) the portions of the case which represent the issue, holding, rationale, etc. right in the casebook.

That's what I do. It doesn't really affect resale value either. I used to write out briefs but it really isn't worth the time. I would reccomend finding that out for yourself, though, since I do think it was helpful to start law school by doing traditional briefs.

62
towelie, lets state the obvious.  you go to penn.  thus, there isn't much competition for jobs because likely everyone in the top 75% will have a job when they graduate.  this is the benefit of going to a school like penn.  therefore you didn't have a very competitive experience in law school and you disagree with everyone in the world saying that law school is competitive.  law school is competitive.  end of story.

in the world outside of top 10, knowing more than the next guy is pretty important.  since bros never once said that you had to lie, cheat and steal to know more than the next guy, i would say that bros is giving pretty good advice...

That is a valid point, which is why I was disagree with bros in the first place because he said HYS. I know someone at the bottom of the class 1L year who managed a V50 NYC firm offer for his first summer. So, in reality, even outside of HYS, a bottom student at a top school will still get BIGLAW, even in their 1L year possibly. That was a major point I disagreed on.

I don't disagree with everyone in the world that law school is competitive - I know it can be and is and very many institutions. OP just made it out like it was HYS or competition, which is crap.

63
there is a HUGE f-ing difference between a gunner and a good student. wait until you guys go through your first year. law school is more competitive than you think. if you want to just cruise through LS and bank your future on the fact that someone on LSD says that most really successful lawyers werent at the top of their class, go for it. Enjoy your B minuses. Have fun at OCI.

I'm already done my 1L and I still disagree with what you have to say.

As far as having fun at OCI, I will! Thanks!

 :D you DO go to penn, so im sure OCI will be pretty fun for you. and what part of what i'm saying do you disagree with?

Law school was less competitive than I ever would have imagined - so I disagree with that comment for starters.

I just disagree that you need to be out to be number 1. This would be true at plenty of schools but it does extend past over HYS as you have admitted but did say at first.

64
there is a HUGE f-ing difference between a gunner and a good student. wait until you guys go through your first year. law school is more competitive than you think. if you want to just cruise through LS and bank your future on the fact that someone on LSD says that most really successful lawyers werent at the top of their class, go for it. Enjoy your B minuses. Have fun at OCI.

I'm already done my 1L and I still disagree with what you have to say.

As far as having fun at OCI, I will! Thanks!

65
dont get me wrong! make friends, share outlines, study with others. but you shouldnt just assume that if you know the law, you'll make good grades. you need to know MORE than your classmates to get an A. That's what a lot of people dont realize. A lot of folks, I feel like, think that they can just learn the material, demonstrate a decent understanding and application of the stuff you learn in class and get a good grade, like in undergrad. You need to do everything you can to show that you are #1. No one spots every issue. But you can get more points in your analysis if you study outside sources.

I think there are some things to think abot here.
First: most successful lawyers did not finish at the top of their class.  In fact, I have it on good authority that 50% of people were below median!  As Towelie said, you can get by just fine at most schools regardless.  For most people's career goals, a 4.0 is unnecessary.
Second: You don't have to feel bad about not getting an A. You're right that this isn't undergrad--but that goes both ways.  It's not bad to get a B.  In law school, a B is NOT "the new D" like it is in college.  It's a normal grade.  Average even!
Third: You can do well and finish at the top of your class by competing with yourself and driving yourself to be the best you can be.  And you can do this completely cooperatively and with a respect for your classmates. I think a competitive mentality is unnecessary and even unhelpful.
Third:

Agreed. Unhelpful in that it could make you socially awkward, prevent people from sending you notes/outlines, etc. No one likes a gunner.

66
plus, ANYTHING you can do to give yourself an advantage over your classmates is important. law school is a competition. unless you go to HYS, you should be focusing your efforts not just on learning the law/material, but BEATING your classmates and doing things that will put you ahead of them. this should be your primary goal.

I complete disagree with this.  It's true that virtually all law schools grade students on a forced curve, so law school is competitive in that sense.  It's also true that at less prestigious schools it is more important to be near the top of the curve.  But life is too short to waste time trying to "beat your classmates."  I just finished my 1L year and had a great time making friends with my classmates, working together with them, sharing outlines/notes/tips/etc.  Luckily, I encountered very few hypercompetitive people who define their worth by beating out others.

dont get me wrong! make friends, share outlines, study with others. but you shouldnt just assume that if you know the law, you'll make good grades. you need to know MORE than your classmates to get an A. That's what a lot of people dont realize. A lot of folks, I feel like, think that they can just learn the material, demonstrate a decent understanding and application of the stuff you learn in class and get a good grade, like in undergrad. You need to do everything you can to show that you are #1. No one spots every issue. But you can get more points in your analysis if you study outside sources.

If you want to work as a SCOTUS clerk, maybe. But I have friends who are clerking at the federal circuit level and a friend working at Wachtell who were not in the top 10% here (or URM's). In other words, aside from HYS, there are some schools where you do NOT have to worry about being the best or even towards the top to do well. HYS is such an arbitrary cut off for that and I think it is misleading to say if you go to any other school you have to worry about being #1.

67
not to steal bros thunder, but i recommend actually going to class before buying these supplements.  might save you some coin.  some professors will flat out tell you that they want to hear what they teach in those words, rather than the way that emanuel's presents it.  also, some classes are just taught different than the standard commercial outline.  you will get a better gauge after a couple weeks or a month which commercial supplements will help you. 

just some food for thought since i way overspent on supplements first semester and just didn't have the time to read them all. 

one tip: DO NOT fall behind.  you will not have time at the end of the semester to catch up.  be consistent with your outlines throughout the semester.  professors typically will be teaching new material in the last class before exam reading period.  then you have 4-5 exams in approx. 2 weeks with no time to catch up. 


this is very good advice. the supplements i mentioned worked for me, so thats why i mentioned them. but even if your prof wants you to give exam answers 'in their style' or vernacular, i believe that it is VERY difficult to truly learn the material without studying sources other than your casebook and class notes.


plus, ANYTHING you can do to give yourself an advantage over your classmates is important. law school is a competition. unless you go to HYS, you should be focusing your efforts not just on learning the law/material, but BEATING your classmates and doing things that will put you ahead of them. this should be your primary goal.

This is so false... or at least it extends past HYS. 

68
Grade inflation is what you get for going to school surrounded by ridiculously smart people. Sure, you can say LSAT or UGPA might not really speak to how smart someone is and in certain cases this is certainly true, but everyone in my section was pretty incredible - I wouldn't be surprised if I scored worse than any of them in any class.

What they tell us here is that even if we are at the bottom of the curve in one class, we would probably be top of the class at another school. Whether that is true or not I'm not sure, but it would certainly make sense. I was a straight A student at a state school and, while I do well enough, I'm not even close to the top here. However, if I went to Temple or Penn State or Rutgers who knows where I would be.

Top law schools are top not only because their faculty and academic reputation but also because their employment opportunities. Texas could create its own grading system like Chicago, set the curve to a C, and still out place all the other Texas schools.

69
General Off-Topic Board / Re: LSD Philadelphia
« on: May 08, 2007, 04:16:25 PM »
Well lets get this thread going again!! haha

Are you in Philly this summer?

I'm studying abroad in Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil from may15 to June 21st, it should be an awesome time!!! After that I'll be back in philly.  I just had my last final yesterday, I AM DONE WITH 1L!!!! WOOOHOOOO!!!

How about you?? plans for the summer yet??

Yeah - I'm living in Philly and working at a firm in Wilmington. Should be fun - lots of drinking I know that.

70
General Off-Topic Board / Re: LSD Philadelphia
« on: May 07, 2007, 08:03:50 PM »
Well lets get this thread going again!! haha

Are you in Philly this summer?

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