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Messages - jarhead

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The bottom of the class at NYU or Columbia (and even at a couple of lower ranked schools) will still get 160k NYC if they want it. Cravath isn't a lock but once you hit T14 and, especially, T10, 160k in NYC is all but assured.

no one is arguing this, but making a statement about all big law firms based off of the one you happen to work at is what's not realistic. of course firms go deeper into classes of top 5-14 schools. but if you got to martindalehubbel or NALP you will be quite surprised at the myriad of schools representing at the big law firms, there are more than 5 by the way. if you're in a top 14 school great congratulations. but quit yanking your own you know what by implying that those who are not should "realistically" lower their expectations.

I'm going to jump in here and advise that men buy one really nice suit instead of two cheap ones if it is at all possible budget-wise. My husband has both and the difference a more expensive suit makes is actually quite noticeable. He spent about $450 on his new suit (major sale - it is an $800 suit) and it looks fantastic on him. The $200 suit just isn't as nice, the fabric doesn't look as good and the more expensive one just hangs better. Men are lucky and can get away with one nice suit and different shirts and ties. Women really do probably need 2-3 different suits.

For anyone looking to save some money, Nordstrom usually has a big sale in the end of July (it starts 7/20 this year) and you can get some good deals. I will probably be picking up a few more suits for myself at this sale for OCI, and shirts and ties for my husband. Nordstrom is more expensive than a lot of other places, but the service is good and at least for men, I think the suit alterations are free.

Macy's is also a good option, and a bit less expensive, and if you get their store credit card, you can often save 20%. For a major purchase that might be well worth it. Also surprisingly, Costco occasionally has dress shirts that are nice and fairly inexpensive.

thank you thank you thank you! this lady knows of what she speaks. i didn't want to come across as an a-hole but a $100.00 suit is really cheap and looks it. $400-500 is a bargain for a nice suit (meaning on sale). i know people argue the whole it's just a label thing but it's not. you do have to pay for quality when it comes to clothes.

I wouldn't call it a pervasive myth -- it's largely true.  I don't think anyone on this board has ever said you must go to a T14 to have *any* chance of working in biglaw; rather, people have just said if you want to have a realistic chance of working in biglaw, you need to go to a T14.

i think you should read this board more thoroughly especially the prelaw side. i don't agree with realistic either...if you got to a T14 your chances are optimal yes, but to say that you can only or "realistically" get there from a T14 is not simply not true.

Isn't solid black suit only reserved for dinner event or funeral? 
Should I get stripe black suits for interview and work?

eeeeeh yeah kinda, it depends where you are. in NY black is standard you won't stand out for wearing black. black is classy and elegant (hence formal wear) but it's mainly an east coast thing. in other parts of the country it is considered more formal. if your worried about i would go with dark blue.

$400-500?  That's so expensive, I doubt I can afford that kind of suit.  I was thinking more like $200.   >:(
So what is in style, 2 button or 3 button suits?
At K&G in the Philly area you can get 2 decent suits on sale for $150 - $200.  $400 - $500 is kinda steep maybe that's the amount in NY or something.

Go stand outside of a biglaw law office (Or the courthouse) on monday and you will see what they wear.  If you go to the courhouse make sure you watch the lawyers entrance.

yeah it's steep, but i said decent suit. if you can only afford $150. or $200.00 you can probably find something at a K&G or men's warehouse, but you also get a $400 suit for $200 at department stores on sale, there's a lot of good deals right now because they are clearing out for fall merchandise. don't bust your budget but you have to pay $400-$500 and up for a nice suit anywhere you live (once again if you don't believe me ask around). it's an ivestment but you can wear it to work etc. especially for you people going to work in high end law firms. you can write that stuff off on your taxes by the way (business expenses). you're going to want to have a decent suit trust me. if you just don't have the money get the cheaper suit for the interview and then upgrade once you start working. the shoes are most important though you can really dress up a $200.00 suit with a nice pair of shoes, same token you can bust down a $500.00 suit with cheap shoes. the number of buttons is personal choice i prefer two but a lot depends on the cut of the suit and your body type. for women sorry i don't have as much "expertise" but i would still say get the best stuff you can afford. women's clothes tend to be a much cheaper than men's so you guys will probably have an easier time finding nice things you can afford.

i've not been to "OCI" but i've been working for 15 years and done many an interview. when your just starting out try and get 2 nice suits, one a dark color black, dark grey etc. and one a light color tan or light grey. but if you can't affort two one will get you through your interviews. im from the NE so i prefer black but a nice dark blue will do. i don't know anyone just starting out who has a suit for everyday of the week, two suits is perfectly acceptable. it's the shirt and tie that make the outfit. as for shirts knock yourself out (they're cheaper get as many as you can afford. if your shirt collar has buttons it should not be worn with a tie, i know you see that all the time but it's wrong. those are casual shirts not meant to be worn with suits (if you don't believe me ask the guy in the store). you can make the same suit look like new just by changing up your shirt and ties. you can never have enough white shirts they're classy and go with everything. but you want to get some other colors as well. if you can only afford two get white and some other color. this is the most important thing i know you don't have a lot of money but you should get a nice suit as much as you can afford. macy's bloomindales etc. are always having sales stay tuned and catch a sale. (the average for a decent suit is $400-500) try and save or borrow from your parents. they usually don't mind coming off of money for an interview suit if you pay them back. i wouldn't get a suit that costs $100.00 unless it's been marked down i've not seen a $100.00 suit that looked good.  DO NOT BUY CHEAP SHOES i don't care how much your suit costs if you're wearing cheap shoes you will look like ish (if you don't believe me ask a lady friend). get a decent pair of dress shoes around $100.00 (once again try and catch a sale). you want to look nice, they know you can't afford the $1000.00 dollar suit but with a decent suit, and a nice shirt and tie you can fake it. oh one more thing when buying off the rack, get your suit altered to fit you correctly, it makes all the difference.

I was searching around Cravath's website to see how smart their esteemed attorneys really are and was shocked to see a guy from my school (T30) working there.    :o  Looking up his profile elsewhere, I found that he graduated summa cum laude, was EIC of the LR, published a student note and had 10 CALI awards.   ;D
What credential would one need to work Cravath, coming from, let say Columbia or NYU? 
Cravath?  God, who cares?  Can you imagine how much ass-kissing you have to do there to be given a chance at serious consideration for partner?  Pucker up!

the guy is just trying to debunk the pervasive myth on this board that if you don't get into T14 you have no chance at big law and shouldn't even bother going to law school for that matter...whether you would want a big law job is another matter...give him a break.

Current Law Students / Re: Supplements
« on: July 06, 2007, 01:01:47 PM »
Dressler's Understanding Crim Law (Excellent, used the Dressler casebook as well)
Emmanuel's Flash Cards for Torts (alright, but memorizing the Black Letter Law is not that difficult)
Cherminsky's Principles and Policies for Con Law (Excellent, used the Chemerinsky casebook as well)
Glannon's Examples & Explanations for Civ Pro (OK for broad overview but not very in-depth)
Dukeminier BarBri Outline for Property (Excellent, used the Dukeminier casebook as well)

I didn't use anything for Contracts.

AWESOME thanks!

No matter what anyone says, the truth is there is a very mysterious quality about the grading.  I am about to begin my second year, and for myself I have boiled down my general approach to the following points.

1) Read all the material, but don't waste time re-reading cases or taking overly copious lecture notes.  Remember that you are graded on problem solving more than your encyclopedic knowledge of the material.

2) Develop a system of continually 'checking' your progress, either by studying in groups or using supplements with
question & answer sections.  It is important to make sure you are learning the material efficiently throughout the semester
in a way that you can use to problem solve by applying the principles in your cases to exam questions.

3) For the love of God, take the time to seriously study for YOUR PROFESSOR'S final.  Some teachers will write wonderful
   exams that fairly test you on the material, other professor's will test you on inane things you barely studied in class.  My first semester I earned great grades because I spent hours taking practice tests for each course.  My second semester I didn't think I needed to, and did not do nearly as well.  Your entire grade in a course will likely come down to a single 4 hour test.  Treat each class like the LSAT, you wouldn't walk into the LSAT without having taken practice tests under timed conditions.  Treat your classes the same way, in my opinion this is the single biggest difference between high and low grades; even more unfortunately than how well you actually know the material. 

not arguing with you but i think you've just said what the other guy said. you did your thing (practice test, study grops etc.) and didn't worry about others. you have to know the material well to apply it well, no?

Current Law Students / Re: Supplements
« on: July 06, 2007, 11:22:48 AM »
first let me say im still chillin' and relaxin' having read a thing except maxim etc.  :) but being the obssesive planner that i am, as august slowly approaches i was wondering if we could get a general idea of supplements that people found helpful. especially those who finished at the top of the class. i know that everyone has to do what works for them but i'm sure some supplements stand out as clearly better than others. i've heard a lot of people say E&E examples and explanations are really good i think...any general advice as far as supplements goes? i'm trying to avoid spending money on everything only to find out that only 2 or 3 were useful.

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