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Messages - jarhead

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21
Job Search / Re: Incoming 1L Job FAQ's
« on: July 16, 2007, 03:23:25 PM »
What do applications for biglaw firms say?  I mean, on Dec. 1st no one has their grades or has even taken finals.  Do you just use your college resume and hope your school's name has enough pull?

This is when it pays to be a non-trad. ;)


 ;) :D ;D

22
http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=372&Product_Id=1082363&Parent_Id=305&default_color=Black

how is this piece?

I don't really want to buy anything online though, especially a suit that is nearly $500.  Do Brooks Brothers Stores also offer sales events?



very nice. you generally can never go wrong with brooks brothers. i know what you mean about buying online and i really wouldn't buy a suit online if i could help it all, you really need to see how it looks on you. but if it can't be helped, you can go to a department store or a place that rents tuxes and get your measurements that way you know what size to order. the main thing is to get the right size across the chest and the correct jacket length for your height, and of course correct collar size for your shirt. the rest you can have altered. another thing that i forgot to mention before and that a lot of people don't know. DO NOT OVERDRY CLEAN YOUR SUIT. the chemicals break down the fabric. unless you spill something on yourself or have some kind of stain you only need to dry clean SUITS once or twice every 3-6 months. if you ever notice little spots of wear especially on the front of your jacket (they look like water stains) it's because you're taking it to the cleaners too much. i used to take mine in once a month but my drycleaner told me i was ruining my suits. seeing as he is losing money by giving me the heads up i'm taking his word for it.

23
Current Law Students / Re: Possibiility of working with FBI?
« on: July 10, 2007, 12:47:19 PM »
1.5 years is not 6 months. 1.5 year is fast and possible if you have a sqeeky clean, background as i've alread said. the average is 2-5 years depending on your background (5 is rather long and rare but i have seen it). if you have a divorce it takes longer, if you have someone in your family who is a foreign national it takes longer, if you've traveled overseas or had credit issues it takes longer, if you had got cited for underage drinking ever it takes longer. if you have a degree in a field in which there is a have a critical need they will move a little faster. a full clearance does not just mean Top Secret.

not going to argue they can tell you whatever they want i've been doing this work for 9 years just quit in june for law school. i have had a TS/SCI full scope with full lifestyle polygraph since 1998 and was a Marine Corps veteran. the average applicant takes doesn't go from application to Quantico in 1.5 years.   

24
Current Law Students / Re: Possibiility of working with FBI?
« on: July 10, 2007, 12:19:07 PM »
also just for the full picture you will go from GS-X to GS-13 very quickly after that is slows down because promotions are no longer automatic you have to apply for openings and compete. the wait for GS-13 to a GS-14 is anywhere from 2-5 years, once again depending on your career field with the intelligence track being the fastest. once you get to a GS-14, 15 is again not automatic once again you have to wait for a spot, in your agency, in your career field, in your position. i started out as government employee and quickly went over to the dark side of contracting because i saw the light. imo you don't need a JD to be a special agent. you will be doing the same law enforcement as every other special agent who only have bachelor's degrees. but because you your a "fancy lawyer type" you won't get to do any of the fun stuff you will be sitting in a cubicle pushing paper.

25
Current Law Students / Re: Possibiility of working with FBI?
« on: July 10, 2007, 12:00:24 PM »
i originally applied for the FBI Phase 1 special agent postion when i was still in the military, i got out in '03. they just called me two weeks ago to see if i was still interested in phase II and i've had a full scope security clearance since 1998 (meaning i don't have to go through as rigorous a background check). 1.5 years is the time they tell everybody but realistically it takes 2-5 years from the time you apply until you enter into active service (if you have a squeeky clean record). that's for any government job that requires a security clearance, not just the FBI. do not work for the FBI. special agents start out at GS-10 which is somewhere around 50K. it takes an average of 10 years(if you're a jack bauer type) to, like most people, 15-20 years to get to a GS-15 which is somewhere around 100K. above that is the executive schedule 115K and above, but you have to wait for someone to die or retire to make that and there will be a long line of people ahead of you who've been waiting longer. if you want to work for the goverment with a law degree, the justice department is a better option.

Parts of what you say is true, parts are not.  I have a government job with a security clearance and it did NOT take 2.5 years to get lol.  I interviewed right out of college and was hired 6 months later. 

Also, most government positions are career ladder positions.  3 years later, I'm a GS-12 and eligible for my GS-13 very soon.  It's beyond 13 that things can take a while, but with the current climate of retirees it is a pretty good time to be a fed.  However, a lot depends on your series.  I'm in a pretty high demand series so the pay grade jumps have been good to me, however, there are a TON of higher grade attorneys in the government right now and therefore it is slow moving past GS-12 in many agencies.

It all depends on what you want.  I have no desire to work for the feds after law school.  If I did, I wouldn't be going through the hell that is law school because I can make a good government wage without it.


uh all of what i am saying is correct. if you got yours in 6 months then your security clearance was expidited, doesn't mean your're fully cleared they just grant you the lowest clearance you need to get into the building depending on the agency you work for. whichever agency you work for will still do a full scope etc. if you're not in the intelligence field series codes (0132) or (1811) then the the clearance process is different and less stringent. FBI special agents and intelligence support postions fall under the intellgence job series (0132) and (1811). they will still do a full scope background investigation which unless you've never had even a parking ticket can not be completed in 6 months. the FBI and some other agencies do not give expidited clearances. you have to be fully cleared and polygraphed before you can step foot in the building. in the 10 years i've been working in the IC i've never seen that entire process take less than 1 year and that's if they are really desperate. back to the FBI, they will still make you go through the entire security /polygraph process regardless of your current clearance status. if you have a clearance than you know how stupid and time wasting that is. even if you've just had your 5 year update they still take you through the entire process and re-polygraph you. i worked in the intelligence field from 1998- June 2007 for NSA CIA and DIA. i've not worked for FBI because their process is the long, time consuming and redundant. 

26
yeah i was gonna say the whole skirt suit thing sounded like something out of the 50's but i didn't wanna encroach on the ladies territory.

27
Black sweats and a hoodie.  Make sure your shoes are adidas though.




 :D :D nice dont' forget the bling

28
Hmm... I dont remember exactly what I paid for my suits, but neither one was over $400 given the clearance sale on both.  Both are brand names too (Brooks Brother's and Burberry), but were lower end suits by their respective brands.  I havent heard any negative comments on my suits yet, so I guess they look fine.


brooks brothers and burberry make fine suits. everyone is caught up on the price the point is get a nice suit. you got your's on clearance so they were cheaper, good. i borrowed the money from my parents for my first legit job suit. they were happy to give it, i paid them back.  this is not just "an interview suit" most of you will be wearing it to work. believe me when you guys start working as associates at your respective firms you will understand why $400.00 bucks for a suit is a sale. right now is the best time to look for a suit for August interviews. all of last years summer and winter suits will be on sale at the better department stores in order to make way for this year's stuff. nordstrom, bloomindales, neiman marcus etc. check it out i already got a nice pin stripped black (yes black) Ralph Lauren, notched lapel, single breasted, side vented, two button for $350. marked down from $850.00 at nordstrom alterations were free. they got some blues and dark greys left....

29
Current Law Students / Re: Possibiility of working with FBI?
« on: July 09, 2007, 03:43:40 PM »
i originally applied for the FBI Phase 1 special agent postion when i was still in the military, i got out in '03. they just called me two weeks ago to see if i was still interested in phase II and i've had a full scope security clearance since 1998 (meaning i don't have to go through as rigorous a background check). 1.5 years is the time they tell everybody but realistically it takes 2-5 years from the time you apply until you enter into active service (if you have a squeeky clean record). that's for any government job that requires a security clearance, not just the FBI. do not work for the FBI. special agents start out at GS-10 which is somewhere around 50K. it takes an average of 10 years(if you're a jack bauer type) to, like most people, 15-20 years to get to a GS-15 which is somewhere around 100K. above that is the executive schedule 115K and above, but you have to wait for someone to die or retire to make that and there will be a long line of people ahead of you who've been waiting longer. if you want to work for the goverment with a law degree, the justice department is a better option.

30
The bottom of the class at NYU or Columbia (and even at a couple of lower ranked schools) will still get 160k NYC if they want it. Cravath isn't a lock but once you hit T14 and, especially, T10, 160k in NYC is all but assured.



no one is arguing this, but making a statement about all big law firms based off of the one you happen to work at is what's not realistic. of course firms go deeper into classes of top 5-14 schools. but if you got to martindalehubbel or NALP you will be quite surprised at the myriad of schools representing at the big law firms, there are more than 5 by the way. if you're in a top 14 school great congratulations. but quit yanking your own you know what by implying that those who are not should "realistically" lower their expectations.

I can't tell if your use of the word realistic (or its derivations) twice in this post is supposed to indicate that you disagree with my assessment that, outside of the T14, it's unrealistic to expect to work in biglaw.  If so, perhaps I can refine that a little.  I'd agree that many schools just outside the T14 also place well in big law, for example, GW, UCLA, etc.  And there are also other schools that place well in their home market, for example, Fordham.  But at many, many law schools, and certainly virtually all schools in the third and fourth tier of US News, you have to be at the very top of the class to even be considered in biglaw.  Statistically, it's going to be a small group of people at these schools.  Perhaps we can agree that at many schools it's unlikely you will work in biglaw, rather than calling it unrealistic?

For what it's worth, I didn't go to a T14.  I went to a lower ranked school and excelled, so I've seen some of this first hand. 


i realized after i wrote it that i was addressing two different posts...i was half agreeing with your post while disagreeing with the "at my firm" guy. obvioulsy i'm not a lawyer yet but at the job i just left i worked in DC with lawyers every day for the past 9 years. in beltway terms i was a "consultant" which is a fancy way of saying i can't say what i actually did. you name a law school and i probably know someone who graduated from there, especially on the east coast. i got into harvard and a few other good schools this last cycle i'm thoroughly convinced because one of them put in a good word for me so i'm not being defensive. i said all that to say i read a lot of things on here that just are not true. this whole T14 or die is just BS, im sorry but it is. if you do well at a tier 1 school you have a realistic shot at a big law firm. you may not start in NYC but some of the regional branches of big law firms i.e. los angeles, s. florida, wherever in the south atlanta, texas whatever are not as particular. yes your chances for starting out with the wind at your back are great if you go to a T14 but the notion that you have to be 10% at your loser non 14 school is just bunk. i don't care what you're particular firm does there are a lot of lawyers out there who work in big law and make the big bucks who did not go to T14 schools. i know this because i worked with dozens of them every day for the past 9 years. i've also worked with the GT, Harvard, Yale guys and gals who think that they are god's gift because they went to those schools, usually they are not. it's usually the guy who went to the so called off brand law school (talking tier 1 still) who worked his as- off to get good grades (top 20%) who knows the law standing on his head. im not saying that all the T14 guys were like that because they weren't. but the ones who were were also the type that looked down on those who didn't have the pedigree. i've also had dealings with the firms, two here in washington come to mind, who only recruit from 1-5, who will only consider law review top 10% etc. from "lower ranked" schools etc. i personally would never want to work for any of those firms.  

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