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Messages - jarhead

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General Board / Re: Gunners firing blanks?
« on: September 19, 2007, 09:12:21 PM »
I unfortunately think I might be thought of as a gunner.  :'( I am always raising my hand, but not to show off, it is because I want to know if my take on an issue is correct , and many times no one else will bring up my issue so I am left wondering if I was incorrect, or if others just didn't think of what I thought.  Hopefully I am not getting a bad reputation. I'm actually a pretty laid back law student, I try not to get too much into the competition but I do like knowing if I am correct or incorrect in class.

If you think you're a gunner, you probably are a gunner.

If you don't think you're a gunner and you don't think there are any gunners in your class, but you "regularly participate," you're probably a gunner.

eh, I don't really care if people consider me a gunner, because i know that what I am doing now isn't affecting my grades for the better nor is having the professor knowing who I am going to affect my grades at all, i do it for other reasons.  So you are saying that you can't participate in class without being labeled "a gunner"?  What if I enjoy particpating just for the sake of it and for the sake of staying actively involved in the class?

i don't think anyone is saying participation is the same as gunning. if the prof ask someone else a question and before they can open their mouth to answer your hand is in the air, you're a gunner. if after the prof finishes telling you what the issue is you raise your hand and say "but isn't the issue ....", your a gunner. if after the prof has taken the time to tell you what the issue is and what you should take from a case you raise your hand and say something like "but i think the issue is ....", you're a gunner. if after another student speaks you raise your hand and say something like "that makes no sense i think...", you're a gunner. if, as happened in a friend of mine's sections, you have a prof who is considered the premiere expert on the death penalty in the country and one of the preeminent experts on criminal law in the country, tells you something about the criminal law and you raise your hand and say "i think you're wrong about that", you're a gunner.

General Board / Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« on: September 15, 2007, 09:19:10 PM »
yes its one year later and im still glad i went to law school.

General Board / Re: Gunners firing blanks?
« on: September 15, 2007, 09:18:32 PM »
we don't have many gunners in my section. i hear some of the other sections do though. we do have a policy guy but he's usually somewhere around the mark and he's just trying to make sure he understands so hes not so bad. what we have far more of and what is really getting on my nerves is people who make it far more complicated then it has to be. trying to explain mens rea, the prof will ask a simple question to get the ball rolling like "if x is walking on the pier and bumps into y accidentally knocking him in the water can x be said to have intended to knock y in the water?" this question will inevitably stump whoever is asked there will be 5 minutes of just staring then 2 minutes of "uuuuhhh" follwed finally some 20 mins later and after several attempts at rephrasing the question by the professor in a "uh no i don't think so" ugh its driving me crazy.

Book Sales and Trades / Re: how much do 1L books cost?
« on: September 04, 2007, 10:52:34 PM »
i ended up paying around $700.00 for all required

General Board / Re: Just me?
« on: September 03, 2007, 01:26:19 PM »
I'm finding it manageable as well. it's a lot of work but 1L so far has not been a "nightmare" i think that whole scene attracts a certain personality type anyway. i do notice a big difference between the straight out of college set and the worked some first set. the former is very cliquey and at least so far seem overly concerned with socializing. that could be because its still early in the semester but old habits die hard. i'm not anti-social. i went to a couple of the "get to know everyone" events during orientation i.e. before classes, but not since. if i come out of this place with friends great, but i didn't come to law school to party and drink every night. every weekend is working fine for me  :) i also think people who worked have better time management skills and seem to have grasped the bigger picture a little quicker and little better. a lot of the younger kids are still in the "what's the right answer" mode. i'm sure most will catch on eventually but it just seems to be an advantage to get that part of law school early on.

General Board / Re: Outlining - when and how to do it?
« on: September 03, 2007, 01:17:55 PM »
i'm a 1L and i've started briefing after the first week. my crim and property profs' syllabi break down each area of law ie. Acquistion by Discovery/ acquisition by capture etc. with the cases we read and discuss underneath, so whenever we get to the end of a section (for me after the first week) i outline. Just one section took me a really long time not so much the material as the format. figuring out where everything should go and what to leave out. civ pro i'm just briefing cases so far.

What about shoes?  What style is appropriate?  Lace? no lace? What about color? 

i prefer lace ups oxford, cap toe or wing tip. color depends on the suit but you can never go wrong with black. i started out with one black pair and one brown pair. once you start making money you can branch out but for starters black pair and brown pair. and if you can spare it invest in shoe trees they increase the life of your shoes

General Board / Re: So my crap school has a guy working at Cravath
« on: August 05, 2007, 09:58:17 PM »
For the record, I wasn't trying to debunk the "myth" that only people from T14 schools work for biglaw.  If anything, what I have seen so far overwhelmingly confirms that myth. 

I agree.  I thought the response was almost funny. 


Read this article:  One quote supporting my earlier posts: "But the eye-popping salaries are the reality for a small fraction of law school graduates, and all those stories of big money may be creating unrealistic hopes for the vast majority of law school students. Contributing to the situation is the effort by law schools to portray their employment numbers as robustly as possible to boost their ranking scores."

i read that article before you posted it here. i've worked in the legal field for the past 9 years and actually know of what i speak. there is nothing that contradicts my statement in this article. what people like you always seem to miss is that there are like something like 180 law schools only 50 are considered tier one so yes for a majority of law students i.e. those at tier 2-4 schools, these statistics hold true. however my statment was confined to tier 1. in addition outside of harvard and gt which have very large classes the average law school class at top 20 is anywhere from 100-150 top 10% of that would be 10 to 15 students per school. assuming that every single one of those students takes a job in a big law firm they would still be a small majority compared to the former, so once again not contradicted by your article. as i see you've already been busted on this board i won't bother to mention that many lawyers who don't get big law initially work in medium or small firms and then transfer to big law after 5 years or so of building a reputation. i also won't mention the fate of those elite t14 students who fail to make partner at big law and will be out the door in five years, just as that mere mortal small to mid lawyer is walking in the door.

General Board / Re: 1L Case Briefs
« on: July 26, 2007, 03:36:47 PM »
i took a UG class called legal methods and analysis or something like that, we did case briefs the exact way the previous poster described. i didn't find it particularly hard or difficult got an A in the class. i know it was a UG class but i've seen a few law school case briefs and don't see anything different. is there something about case briefs in law school that makes them harder?

ok cool, someone on some other thread was saying something about professor, no exams on file, unfair advantage blah blah.

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