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Messages - livinglegend

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81
I respectfully dissent I think if you are going into law school your smart enough to ask questions. Additionally the vast majority of students receive no scholarship money at all so even the ones that lose money did save thousands on their first year tuition. 

Maybe I am to harsh, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for aspiring lawyers that do not check in on details such as conditions involved with maintaining $50,000-$100,000 scholarships. If these were high school seniors enrolling as Freshman in undergrad it would be a little different, but that sort of thing happens all the time in College Sports where students lose their athletic scholarships due to injury, poor performance, etc. I imagine academic scholarships are revoked all the time in undergrad as well, which is more of an issue. However, law students are college graduates who write personal statements about how amazing they are and are one day going to be lawyers you better learn to ask questions and not assume everything is going to be ok if your going into the legal profession it is your job to make sure people know what they are getting into and if you can't take care of yourself why would someone hire you to take care of them?

Maybe a little harsh, but I think law students complain to much particularly at my alma matter law school, which is listed here. When I was offered $90,000 plus in scholarship based on having a 3.0 I asked the question of what does it take to have a 3.0 and I was told point blank. If you don't ask they are not going to tell you and like anything else law school is a business first and foremost from Harvard to Cooley if you don't pay your tuition they won't do you any favors.


82
Black Law Students / Re: Chance at FSU?
« on: July 08, 2013, 10:23:28 AM »
Lawschoolnumbers is pretty accurate, but you never know. If your a Florida resident don't forget about Floria International, which is only 12k or so a year if your a Florida resident.

Please don't get to caught up in the rankings as an attorney myself I can tell you they mean very little unless you were dealing with Harvard, Yale, Stanford, but like 98% of law students those are nto options.  Bottom line is Florida State is not going to have people knocking down your doors it is a fine school, but the reality is that at any ABA school you learn the same exact thing. Your first year will consist of Torts, Contracts, Property, Civil Procedure, and Criminal Law maybe Crim Pro or Con Law instead taking the other ones in 2L. In these courses you will read Supreme Court cases and the Supreme Court does not write separate opinions for different ranked schools. You will read Palsgraff in Torts to learn proximate cause, Pennoyer v. Neff to learn notice etc.

At the end of your three years you will take Barbri or Kaplan to assist you with the Florida Bar and you will be a classroom with Miami, Florida Coastal, Florida State, Florida, Barry, and schools across the country listening to Epstein's lecture on contracts. If you pass the bar you will get a bar card and it will not list your law school rank you will have a license to practice law and what you do with that is up to you.

As an additional point remember U.S. News is a for-profit, unregulated magazine, offering an opinion so don't make a life altering choice based on it. The formula they use makes almost no sense as 60% of the ranking consists of people filling out Scrantons on a scale of 1-5 regarding schools they have never dealt with. U.S. News also ranks more than law schools New Mexico is teh best place to live http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/slideshows/best-places-to-live are you going to move there because they have a balloon festival? Probably not, but maybe you love balloon festivals just don't let U.S. News make a life altering decision for you.

I think FSU, Florida, and FIU are the best schools to attend in Florida based on in-state tuition. Miami, Barry, Florida Coastal, Stetson, and Nova are all three times as much per year so FIU in my mind is a way better deal, but visit all the schools and talk to professors, admins, students, and make sure the school is a fit as each school does have a culture to it and make sure it suits your style.

Congrats on taking all the steps to apply to law school and good luck.


83

I think I responded to another post of yours, but to sum it up there is so such thing as a "best" school. There are a few schools that have a national reputation for being outstanding Harvard, Yale, Stanford, but that has more to do with the difficulty of being admitted opposed to the actual education. Simply put at any law school you will learn the law and read Supreme Court Cases the ABA has certain requirements that must be met and there will be required courses to take, which will include Torts, Civil Procedure, Property, Criminal Procedure, Constitutional Law, Contracts, and a few others. Then odds are you will take the electives that will be on the bar Wills & Trusts, Corporations/Business Associations, Evidence, Remedies, Family Law/Community Property (whatever the indiviudal state deems it.

At the end of your three years of law school you will then signup for BarBri or Kaplan to as a bar course and be in the same course as law students around the Country. So there is no "Best School" and remember that U.S. News Magazine is nothing more than a for-profit, unregulated, magazine offering an opinion. U.S. News has also ranked Alberquue, New Mexico as the best place to live 1.   http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/slideshows/best-places-to-live (A major reason being the hot-air balloon festival this is obviously important to the U.S. News magazine writer, but I have no interest in Hot-Air Ballon Festivals or living in New Mexico so it is not the "Best" place for me and I imagine you will not having post graduation plans of living in New Mexico because U.S. News says it is the best.

Use that same common sense when choosing a law school so many 0L's myself included when I was a 0L overthink the law school process, but thankfully I had practicing attorneys talk me out of moving to Michigan for law school when I wanted to work in the Bay Area. My reasoning was Michigan State was the 84th best school and that would obviously open far more doors than attending the 108th best school, but low and behold the School I attended is now ranked higher than Michigan State again showing the arbitrariness of the rankings.

What you need to do is choose the "Best" law school for you and it sounds like that may be South Carolina. You should also look into costs and potential scholarships, but also look at the conditions of any scholarship you receive often it will require something like maintaining a 3.0 GPA, which every 0L thinks they will achieve with ease. However, law school is nothing like undergrad and typically only 35% of the class can have a 3.0 this means there is a 65% chance you will not be in the top 35%. Again, 100% of law students at every ABA school are smart, hard-working, motivated and absolutely certain they will finish in the top 10% of the class and there is absoultey no way they will finish in the bottom 65% of the class, but you don't need to be a math major to see what happens when 100% of people think they will be in the top of the class. I think this New York Times Article does a good job of explaining the system http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/business/law-school-grants.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 . This is implemented by law schools nationwide so when considering costs and scholarship options look at the CONDITIONS.

In the end there is no "Best School", but there will be a best school for you. Consider what City you want to live in for three years, how much each school will cost, and visit the school to see if it is a good fit for you although the education is the same at each law school the culture is different and you want to be at a school you will feel comfortable at. I know there were some schools I hated others I loved, but that was my own personal feeling and nobody knows better than you what will work best for you so visit the schools, talk to professors, students, admins, etc and listen to your gut to determine what feels right.

Do not and I repeat do not use U.S. News Rankings as anything other than a tie-breaker for schools when making life altering decision of where to live for the next years, how much money to spend on school, and what school culture works best for you. The system U.S. News uses to rank law schools makes little to no sense as it is primarily based on lawyers filling out scrantons from 1-5 about schools they have never heard of. Certainly, Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Columbia etc are nationally known schools, but like 95% of all other practicing lawyers you ill not be attending a top 10 school with a 155 LSAT, but you can have a successful legal career just make sure you go to the "Best School for you" good luck.

84
I think I responded to another post of yours, but to sum it up there is so such thing as a "best" school. There are a few schools that have a national reputation for being outstanding Harvard, Yale, Stanford, but that has more to do with the difficulty of being admitted opposed to the actual education. Simply put at any law school you will learn the law and read Supreme Court Cases the ABA has certain requirements that must be met and there will be required courses to take, which will include Torts, Civil Procedure, Property, Criminal Procedure, Constitutional Law, Contracts, and a few others. Then odds are you will take the electives that will be on the bar Wills & Trusts, Corporations/Business Associations, Evidence, Remedies, Family Law/Community Property (whatever the indiviudal state deems it.

At the end of your three years of law school you will then signup for BarBri or Kaplan to as a bar course and be in the same course as law students around the Country. So there is no "Best School" and remember that U.S. News Magazine is nothing more than a for-profit, unregulated, magazine offering an opinion. U.S. News has also ranked Alberquue, New Mexico as the best place to live 1.   http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/slideshows/best-places-to-live (A major reason being the hot-air balloon festival this is obviously important to the U.S. News magazine writer, but I have no interest in Hot-Air Ballon Festivals or living in New Mexico so it is not the "Best" place for me and I imagine you will not having post graduation plans of living in New Mexico because U.S. News says it is the best.

Use that same common sense when choosing a law school so many 0L's myself included when I was a 0L overthink the law school process, but thankfully I had practicing attorneys talk me out of moving to Michigan for law school when I wanted to work in the Bay Area. My reasoning was Michigan State was the 84th best school and that would obviously open far more doors than attending the 108th best school, but low and behold the School I attended is now ranked higher than Michigan State again showing the arbitrariness of the rankings.

What you need to do is choose the "Best" law school for you and it sounds like that may be South Carolina. You should also look into costs and potential scholarships, but also look at the conditions of any scholarship you receive often it will require something like maintaining a 3.0 GPA, which every 0L thinks they will achieve with ease. However, law school is nothing like undergrad and typically only 35% of the class can have a 3.0 this means there is a 65% chance you will not be in the top 35%. Again, 100% of law students at every ABA school are smart, hard-working, motivated and absolutely certain they will finish in the top 10% of the class and there is absoultey no way they will finish in the bottom 65% of the class, but you don't need to be a math major to see what happens when 100% of people think they will be in the top of the class. I think this New York Times Article does a good job of explaining the system http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/business/law-school-grants.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 . This is implemented by law schools nationwide so when considering costs and scholarship options look at the CONDITIONS.

In the end there is no "Best School", but there will be a best school for you. Consider what City you want to live in for three years, how much each school will cost, and visit the school to see if it is a good fit for you although the education is the same at each law school the culture is different and you want to be at a school you will feel comfortable at. I know there were some schools I hated others I loved, but that was my own personal feeling and nobody knows better than you what will work best for you so visit the schools, talk to professors, students, admins, etc and listen to your gut to determine what feels right.

Do not and I repeat do not use U.S. News Rankings as anything other than a tie-breaker for schools when making life altering decision of where to live for the next years, how much money to spend on school, and what school culture works best for you. The system U.S. News uses to rank law schools makes little to no sense as it is primarily based on lawyers filling out scrantons from 1-5 about schools they have never heard of. Certainly, Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Columbia etc are nationally known schools, but like 95% of all other practicing lawyers you ill not be attending a top 10 school with a 155 LSAT, but you can have a successful legal career just make sure you go to the "Best School for you" good luck.

85
Law School Admissions / Re: Chances for these Law Schools
« on: July 03, 2013, 11:27:29 AM »
I agree with Maintain you really need to understand that law school does not exist in a vaccuum and the location you choose will be where you spend a minimum of three years of your life and most likely the entirey of your legal career. If you attend Syracuse you will take the New York bar and after you take one bar you will not be anxious to take another.

Additionally, three years is a long time and while in law school you will likely enter into a realtionship and if you already have a spouse they will build roots over three years as well you. Picking up and moving after three years is tough especially since all your legal connections will be local and if you attend Syracuse all your connections and your school's connectiosn will be up in Upstate New York and all the Law Students that attended South Carolina will have a significant advantage over you.

I am an attorney and I just reviewed a number of resumes and frankly people applying from out-of-state or out of area law schools I didn't want to bother with. I am in the Bay Area and there is Hastings, Golden Gate, USF, Santa Clara, Davis, and McGeorge applicants who live close enough to actually move. I received resumes from Michigan State, Gonzaga, Florida State etc and just practically I don't want to have the conversation of them asking we will fly them in and I imagine they are more likely to take a job in Michigan, Washington, or Florida so if we even offered it to them there is a good chance they won't take it.

The name of the school is not that impressive and at any ABA school you will learn the same exact thing if a Harvard or Yale resume came across my desk then maybe I would consider flying them out, but if I saw any of the schools you are considering for a job in the Bay Area I would not take it seriously. Not that these are bad schools if I had a firm in South Carolina I would actively recruit from University of South Carolina and not look at resumes from Bay Area Schools.

Also remember that U.S. News should be taken very seriously particularly with schools of this caliber it is a magazine nothing more and at any ABA school you will learn the same thing and your first year will consist of Torts, Contracts, Property, etc and you will read Supreme Court cases the Supreme Court does not write seperate opinions for different law schools and in your first year you will read Palsgraff to learn Proximate Cause, Pennoyer v. Neff to learn about Notice, Hadley v. Baxendale for Contract Remedies so on and so on.

One final piece of advice is to visit each of these schools and get a sense of how you fit in. Although, the law is the same each school has a culture to it and I know as a 0L and having competed in a lot of mock trial competitions different schools have very different cultures some I liked others I didn't. Maybe as analyogy I see your a Marine and in the armed forces and the Army, Navy, Coast Guard, and Air Force are also armed forces, but have different cultures I would imagine. Same for law schools I know there were some I liked and others I hated, but you probably think much differenlty than I do. So visit the schools talk to professors, walk around the campus, talk to students, and talk to administrators and see how you feel about the school. After visiting some schools I knew I did not want to attend school there and others I loved, but that is me and this your life altering decision don't let a magazine make it for you.

Good luck in legal career and excuse the typos sneaking in a little Law School Discussion Post at work doesn't allow me much time to edit.


86
Job Search / Re: Power of connections versus GPA in OCI job prospects
« on: July 01, 2013, 10:16:37 PM »
First off realize I along with anyone else posting on this board is nothing more than an anonymous internet poster so take anything I or anyone else on this board says with a grain of salt.

With that said I am an attorney and can tell you law school grades/rank of law school etc doesn't mean all that much. I graduated in the top 10% of my class, but people were not begging to hire me, but I applied places and got offers. Some of my friends in the bottom 25% of the class and went through the same situation and all the grades, U.S. News law school rankings etc seem like a big deal when your in law school, but in the real world they don't matter much.

What really matters is you passing the bar and having a law license once that is done it is up to you what you do with it. Remember you bar card doesn't say what your Contracts grade was and frankly a judge won't care if you got the highest grade in Contracts or not. Just don't over think grades etc there a few firms and federal clerkships that might care about that, but only 2-3% of grads nationwide work in BigLaw or get Federal Clerkships so don't stress there is plenty of legal work out there.

Now in response your question about dropping out I don't see why that is necessary. It sounds like you enjoy the law and if that is the case you will likely enjoy being a lawyer. However, like any other profession out there starting out is tough whether you continue your legal education or go into some other field you will start with an entry level position and have to work your way up, but it sounds like you enjoy law school so stay.

Good luck!

87
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Which is better?
« on: July 01, 2013, 08:10:20 PM »
Again, there is no better school it is all up to your GPA and how well you do on the LSAT. So you have to ask yourself what environment well you do better in academically Miami or Canada? It is a personal choice, but I would imagine partying in Miami would be much more temping than sub-zero temperatures in Canada, but the actual institution itself will make little to no difference.

The other thing you may want to check is the grading system if one grants slightly higher grades then that may be option. The bottom line is it doesn't really matter what school you attend you have to have an excellent GPA and LSAT to attend an Ivy League Law School and if you have a 3.8 and get a 175 on the LSAT from either University you have a good shot at admission.

With that said I will say you should not put all your eggs in one basket. I know as a 18 year old kid you think getting a 4.0 will be easy and scoring in the top 5% of test takers on the LSAT is a given, but odds are you won't get a 4.0 or score in the top 5% of LSAT takers. Nothing against you personally, but just the reality of the situation.

The reason I say that is you are still quite young and there is a good chance by the time your a junior in college you will have no desire to attend law school so choose the college you think will be the best experience for four years don't base this life altering decision on the remote chance of possibility of attending an Ivy League school.

88
Law School Admissions / Re: 146 LSAT score and 3.56 gpa
« on: July 01, 2013, 08:00:41 PM »
Probably not great unless you are a URM law schools typically go by the numbers, but there is no harm in applying. You may also want to apply early, but retake the October or February LSAT and if you get a higher score great if not you may still get accepted. The majority of schools no longer average scores so you probably have nothing to lose, but I would check with University of Mississippi first.

89
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Which is better?
« on: June 30, 2013, 10:49:04 AM »
To get into an Ivy League Law School you will need outstanding grades and an outstanding LSAT score. Whether you attend York University or Miami won't make much of a difference as long as you perform well.

With that said attending College in Canada or Miami will be a very different experience sub-zero temperatures or 100 degree days on the beach will be two very different environments on top of the fact you will be attending schools in different countries.

I also don't know what the tuition difference is between the two schools, but that will be worth looking into.

Finally not sure what your citizenship is, but I knew a few people that had issues with getting students Visas in law school along with trouble regarding their international transcripts. I would contact any schools your interested in and see if they have issues with processing international transcripts.


90
With all the negativity on various law school boards it is very easy to get demoralized and be scared away from law school or allow current law students or new attorneys struggling to get wrapped up in the negativity and feel sorry for themselves. However, I have been doing research for http://www.legalmatch.com/ regarding various legal figures in history. During this project I often read about the first African American attorney in a state and I just learned about the first women to argue in the Supreme Court Belva Ann Lockwood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belva_Ann_Lockwood.

The things these people had to overcome is truly inspirational and as many are aware women were not allowed to vote or often even attend law school. African American's were not allowed to do a number of things as well and you read about people like   John Langston http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mercer_Langston the first ever African American admitted to the Ohio State Bar who could not attend law school, but got a law license because one Judge would let him use his law library after hours.

What people can accomplish when they don't sit around and feel sorry for themselves is amazing. To any current law student or recent graduate who is sitting and complaining on sites like JD Underground, Autoadmit.com, toplawschools, about how unfair the system is needs to wake up. Maybe you didn't attend Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and people are not lined up the block to hire you, but if you want to succeed as a lawyer you don't just see a door closed and walk away you have to fight to kick it down. That is what Langston and Lockwood did they didn't say how unfair it is for women and leave it at that they did something about it. If your in some scenario where all you are doing is complaining get out and do something about it make a change, but sitting in front of computer complaining is only going to demoralize you and prevent you from accomplishing anything.

If are lucky enough to have had the opportunity to attend a law school you should consider yourselves very fortunate.  Having lived in China and other countries I know that many people simply want to get a job permit or to attend some form of education. You are not banned from applying for jobs and there are student loans available additionally the vast majority of law studnets I know did not come from Compton or some other adverse area typically you are rich, white, and have very few obstacles stand in your way. You have not need  nor  in at night to study for the bar exam or be turned away based on the color of your skin or gender.

 The amount of opportunity available to everyone today is unbelievable and when anyone has had the good fortune of being able to attend law school and sits around and feels sorry for themselves remember people like John Langston or Belva Lockwood who did not sit around and feel sorry for themselves, but overcame tremendous odds. The ball is in your court and a law school gives you a ticket to a law license do something with it other than complain on the internet.

Additionally, if anyone was intelligent enough to get into an ABA law school and pass the bar they are intelligent enough to figure out the problems they are facing. However, nothing will be handed to you and there are flaws in a number of systems today, but go out and do something to change them don't sit on an internet discussion board saying how hard it is to find a job. Lockwood petitioned the Supreme Court to simply be allowed to argue she did not sit in her home or a coffeshop complaining to anyone that might listen.

I hope this post will encourage young attorneys to realize how lucky they are to have had the opportunity to attend law school and encourage OL's who really want to attend law school to not be scared of all the negativity you read. The truth is you make your own luck and create your own path do not be discouraged by the incessant ramblings of anonymous internet posters about how hard everything is just use your common sense if you choose to pursue a legal career and realize it will be a challenge, but if your up for the challenge it can be a very rewarding career.

Stepping off Soapbox. :)

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