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301
Law School Admissions / Re: Best chance for a full-ride??
« on: October 31, 2012, 05:25:30 PM »
I think that is smart decision making unless you get into Harvard, Yale, law school and even then there are no guarantees that you will make enough to pay off the outrageous cost of law school.

With that said a good site to look at how scholarship prospects is lawschoolnumbers.com you can what numbers are necessary to fro admission and the amount of scholarship money that was earned.

One important thing to know before enrolling in law school and accepting a scholarship are the conditions associated with them. Many law schools will send you a letter saying you need to maintain a 3.0 GPA. This sounds easy to individuals who get into law school who assume a 3.0 will be a breeze, but the reality is on a law school curve only about 35% of the first year class can have a 3.0. Everyone that gets into law school assumes they will clearly be in the top 35%, but 100% of people think that and you don't need to be a math major to see that 65% won't be in the top 35%. So be very wary of any conditions on scholarship you receive and with your numbers you would have some bargaining power at a lot of schools.

Also when considering a law school here is a copy/paste of a post I have made to anyone consider law school.

1) Location
In my opinion this is the most important factor when choosing a law school. If you want to live in San Francisco after graduation go to law school in San Francisco, if your from Idaho and want to be close to your family after graduation go to law school in Idaho. The vast majority of schools only have connections in their immediate area and on top of that you will get internships etc in the area your attending school. For example if your going to law school in L.A. you cannot do an internship in New York during the school year and since there are no shortage of law schools in New York or New Jersey there would be no reason to reach out to L.A.

Also law school doesn't exist in a vaccum and the day to day life will play a factor. For example if your ultra liberal, gay, etc going to law school in Arkansas is probably not going to go well and if your ultra conservative going to law school in San Francisco won't go well. If your a person that loves night life etc going to law school in East Lansing Michigan or Tulsa Oklahoma will be hard to handle. If your someone that likes a quiet atmosphere then don't attend New York Law School in the heart of New York's Financial District. These are all factors that are unique to each individual and really consider location.

2) COST
Almost every law school except for a few schools that offer in-state tuition like Florida International, South Dakota, North Dakota, and few others tuition is going to run you approximtely 100k and if your in a location like N.Y. or San Francisco the living expenses for 3 years will probably add on another 50-100k. All of which is accruing interest often at 6 or 8%. This means you can have 8,000 or so in interest alone a year so it is important to really consider cost.

Many schools offer merit scholarships that should be considered even if other schools are "higher ranked" for example if you can get a full scholarship at Gonzaga University compared to paying full tuition at Seattle University then it might be wise to take it since I would imagine most people do not consider either much school must better than the other.

3) Reality of Legal Education
Each ABA law school quite literally teaches you the same thing your first year will be contracts, torts, civil procedure, legal writing, property, criminal law, criminal procedure, and constitutional law or some slight variation, but all those courses will be taken. In Torts you will read the Palsgraff case, Contracts Hadley v. Baxendale etc and all you do at any ABA school is read Supreme Court Decisions and the Supreme Court doesn't take time to write different opinions for different schools. Whether you read the Palsgraff case at Harvard or in West Virginia the firecrackers get dropped and proximate cause is established.

4) Personal Feeling about the School
I personally was accepted to several law schools and I visited a lot as well as participated in some mock trial competitions and I saw a lot of different law schools. There were some that I really liked and some that I really didn't like. My reasons were completely personal to me and what I liked you may have hated and vice versa. You can talk to professors, students, admins, etc and really see first hand what the school is like. I highly recommend doing that prior to making a 3 year 100,000+ commitment just make sure the school fits your personality.

5). Specialty Programs
This ties in more with location rather than the school, but you can still use it as a factor. For example if you really want to do entertainment law then you should go to law school in New York or L.A. that is where movies, t.v shows, etc are made. Therefore, schools in those locations will have a lot of alumni in the area, adjuncts that work in the field will teach in the school, you can get internships at those places during law school and so on. If you want to do entrainment law then going to Idaho law school will not be an ideal spot.

Then there are a few schools that do mock trial competitions which are good and you can kind of see how seriously a school takes that by how many teams they have and how well they do. For example South Texas law school is amazing at Trial Advocacy competitions I have seen there courtroom and they almost won every competition I was ever win they are just good at it. If there is some area of law you are interested in you can look at to what programs they offer.

However, if you are not particularly interested in any area of law don't consider it and don't worry about it. Plenty of law students and even lawyers don't really know what they want to do.

6) Rankings
This is a factor, but remember U.S. News is nothing more than a for-profit magazine offering an opinion. They rank more than law schools and Albuquerque New Mexico is the best place to live now according to them and South & North Dakota will be the best places to live in 2032. One of the main factors for South Dakota being selected as a hot spot in 2032 is because they estimate dental visits will be easy to access. I am not making this up either straight from their website http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/the-best-life/2012/08/07/here-are-the-best-places-to-livein-2032 and http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/real-estate/articles/2009/06/08/best-places-to-live-2009

I highly doubt you are going to make life altering choice and move to Albuquerque because a magazine says you should or start saving to move to South Dakota in 2032. Use the same logic when choosing your law school don't let some magazine be your main guide. No harm in considering it, but don't make a life altering choice based on a magazine.

Conclusion
Those are just some factors to consider and hopefully some of that info is helpful. Also remember I am nothing more than an anonymous internet poster and you should get info directly from people you can interact with face to face to assess their credibility. Good luck .

302
Current Law Students / Re: 2.9 GPA-Looking to get into ASU Law or USD
« on: October 31, 2012, 11:53:30 AM »
Remember when reading these law school boards that all the information is coming from anonymous internet posters so take anything you read including my post with a grain of salt.

With that said Roald makes excellent points and I want to expand upon a few of them. First I don't know if there is any such thing as a "bad" ABA law school the reality of legal education is that it is all the same. Your first year at any law school will consist of contracts, property, torts, criminal law, criminal procedure, con law, and civil procedure. You will read U.S. Supreme Court cases like Palsgraff, Hadley v. Baxendale etc and they are quite literally identical the Supreme Court doesn't write special opinions for different schools the curriculum is the same at all ABA schools. When you finally reach bar prep how you handle it is very personal to the individual a school can' t make you study.

Here is a list of the California bar exams from each school http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=PL6VLVgQEIM%3d&tabid=2269&mid=3159 8 people from Harvard failed the California bar that has nothing to do with Harvard much more the individual. That is how many form of education you have the ability to make it a good or bad experience and any ABA school will get you a ticket to a bar exam, which is really all you need law school for.

As for the 2.9 GPA you can get into plenty of ABA school particularly with a strong LSAT. I think lawschoolnumbers.com is one of the best sites to see what your chances are as well as scholarship opportunities. With a 2.9 and a 160-165 it looks like you would get between a 40 to 45,000 scholarship http://thomasjefferson.lawschoolnumbers.com/applicants/1112/

It looks like California Western might offer you an 80k scholarship or more http://calwestern.lawschoolnumbers.com/applicants/1112/

I also think these 5 factors are what any potential law student should consider

1 Location
In my opinion this is the most important factor when choosing a law school. If you want to live in San Francisco after graduation go to law school in San Francisco, if your from Idaho and want to be close to your family after graduation go to law school in Idaho. The vast majority of schools only have connections in their immediate area and on top of that you will get internships etc in the area your attending school. For example if your going to law school in L.A. you cannot do an internship in New York during the school year and since there are no shortage of law schools in New York or New Jersey there would be no reason to reach out to L.A.

Also law school doesn't exist in a vaccum and the day to day life will play a factor. For example if your ultra liberal, gay, etc going to law school in Arkansas is probably not going to go well and if your ultra conservative going to law school in San Francisco won't go well. If your a person that loves night life etc going to law school in East Lansing Michigan or Tulsa Oklahoma will be hard to handle. If your someone that likes a quiet atmosphere then don't attend New York Law School in the heart of New York's Financial District. These are all factors that are unique to each individual and really consider location.

2) COST
Almost every law school except for a few schools that offer in-state tuition like Florida International, South Dakota, North Dakota, and few others tuition is going to run you approximtely 100k and if your in a location like N.Y. or San Francisco the living expenses for 3 years will probably add on another 50-100k. All of which is accruing interest often at 6 or 8%. This means you can have 8,000 or so in interest alone a year so it is important to really consider cost.

Many schools offer merit scholarships that should be considered even if other schools are "higher ranked" for example if you can get a full scholarship at Gonzaga University compared to paying full tuition at Seattle University then it might be wise to take it since I would imagine most people do not consider either much school must better than the other.

Also as a sidenote each ABA law school quite literally teaches you the same thing your first year will be contracts, torts, civil procedure, legal writing, property, criminal law, criminal procedure, and constitutional law or some slight variation, but all those courses will be taken. In Torts you will read the Palsgraff case, Contracts Hadley v. Baxendale etc and all you do at any ABA school is read Supreme Court Decisions and the Supreme Court doesn't take time to write different opinions for different schools. Whether you read the Palsgraff case at Harvard or in West Virginia the firecrackers get dropped and proximate cause is established.

3) Personal Feeling about the School
I personally was accepted to several law schools and I visited a lot as well as participated in some mock trial competitions and I saw a lot of different law schools. There were some that I really liked and some that I really didn't like. My reasons were completely personal to me and what I liked you may have hated and vice versa. You can talk to professors, students, admins, etc and really see first hand what the school is like. I highly recommend doing that prior to making a 3 year 100,000+ commitment just make sure the school fits your personality.

4. Specialty Programs
This ties in more with location rather than the school, but you can still use it as a factor. For example if you really want to do entertainment law then you should go to law school in New York or L.A. that is where movies, t.v shows, etc are made. Therefore, schools in those locations will have a lot of alumni in the area, adjuncts that work in the field will teach in the school, you can get internships at those places during law school and so on. If you want to do entrainment law then going to Idaho law school will not be an ideal spot.

Then there are a few schools that do mock trial competitions which are good and you can kind of see how seriously a school takes that by how many teams they have and how well they do. For example South Texas law school is amazing at Trial Advocacy competitions I have seen there courtroom and they almost won every competition I was ever win they are just good at it. If there is some area of law you are interested in you can look at to what programs they offer.

However, if you are not particularly interested in any area of law don't consider it and don't worry about it. Plenty of law students and even lawyers don't really know what they want to do.

5 Rankings
This is a factor, but remember U.S. News is nothing more than a for-profit magazine offering an opinion. They rank more than law schools and Albuquerque New Mexico is the best place to live now according to them and South & North Dakota will be the best places to live in 2032. One of the main factors for South Dakota being selected as a hot spot in 2032 is because they estimate dental visits will be easy to access. I am not making this up either straight from their website http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/the-best-life/2012/08/07/here-are-the-best-places-to-livein-2032 and http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/real-estate/articles/2009/06/08/best-places-to-live-2009

I highly doubt you are going to make life altering choice and move to Albuquerque because a magazine says you should or start saving to move to South Dakota in 2032. Use the same logic when choosing your law school don't let some magazine be your main guide. No harm in considering it, but don't make a life altering choice based on a magazine.

Conclusion
Those are just some factors to consider and hopefully some of that info is helpful. Also remember I am nothing more than an anonymous internet poster and you should get info directly from people you can interact with face to face to assess their credibility. Good luck .


303
No problem I am not adcom committee, but I really liked the last paragraph. Just come across as you learned your lesson and it was stupid. Even though realistically having a .03 when your 20 isn't a huge deal at least to me just say you were wrong and you learned from it like you did in your closing paragraph.

I don't think it will have to much of an impact, but I have never worked in a law school admissions office and can't say. Sounds like your doing the right thing disclose and apologize then you should be fine. Good luck on your applications.

If you have any other questions about law school feel free to post again.


304
Those seem pretty good not to much to worry about I have known people with DUI's and MIP's that passed their state's moral character application. As long as you disclose what happened you will probably be ok I would recommend contacting the state bar you plan on practicing in and running your addendums by them.

This is a serious question and anonymous internet posters can't really tell you what will work. Only thing is DO NOT FAIL to disclose this info it sounds you did some stupid stuff in college, but so has just about everyone else. If you disclose it, admit fault, and acknowledge you learned from it shouldn't be a problem. Three people I went to law school with had DUI's and all passed their moral character application for the state bar, but they disclosed it.

That is all you can really do in reality schools are much more concerned about your numbers than these factors, but a state bar will investigate your application and if you hide this fact and a background investigator you may be prevented from getting a law license.

Hope that helps good luck.

305
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Just looking for feedback
« on: October 28, 2012, 12:19:47 PM »
This is kind of an old post, but there are five things I think any 0L should consider. (1) Location (2) Cost (3) Personal Feeling about the School (4) Specialty Programs (5) and if all else fails you can use U.S. News Ranking as a guide, but don't make that your number one factor unless it is Harvard, Yale, etc.

More importantly than anything when making a 3 year $100,000+ take anonymous internet posters like myself with a grain of salt. Nobody knows your situation or what is best for you better than yourself. Many people take advise from these boards very seriously, but for all you know I or anyone else posting anonymously on the internet could  be full of it so take it with a grain of salt.

1 Location
In my opinion this is the most important factor when choosing a law school. If you want to live in San Francisco after graduation go to law school in San Francisco, if your from Idaho and want to be close to your family after graduation go to law school in Idaho. The vast majority of schools only have connections in their immediate area and on top of that you will get internships etc in the area your attending school. For example if your going to law school in L.A. you cannot do an internship in New York during the school year and since there are no shortage of law schools in New York or New Jersey there would be no reason to reach out to L.A.

Also law school doesn't exist in a vaccum and the day to day life will play a factor. For example if your ultra liberal, gay, etc going to law school in Arkansas is probably not going to go well and if your ultra conservative going to law school in San Francisco won't go well. If your a person that loves night life etc going to law school in East Lansing Michigan or Tulsa Oklahoma will be hard to handle. If your someone that likes a quiet atmosphere then don't attend New York Law School in the heart of New York's Financial District. These are all factors that are unique to each individual and really consider location.

2) COST
Almost every law school except for a few schools that offer in-state tuition like Florida International, South Dakota, North Dakota, and few others tuition is going to run you approximtely 100k and if your in a location like N.Y. or San Francisco the living expenses for 3 years will probably add on another 50-100k. All of which is accruing interest often at 6 or 8%. This means you can have 8,000 or so in interest alone a year so it is important to really consider cost.

Many schools offer merit scholarships that should be considered even if other schools are "higher ranked" for example if you can get a full scholarship at Gonzaga University compared to paying full tuition at Seattle University then it might be wise to take it since I would imagine most people do not consider either much school must better than the other.

Also as a sidenote each ABA law school quite literally teaches you the same thing your first year will be contracts, torts, civil procedure, legal writing, property, criminal law, criminal procedure, and constitutional law or some slight variation, but all those courses will be taken. In Torts you will read the Palsgraff case, Contracts Hadley v. Baxendale etc and all you do at any ABA school is read Supreme Court Decisions and the Supreme Court doesn't take time to write different opinions for different schools. Whether you read the Palsgraff case at Harvard or in West Virginia the firecrackers get dropped and proximate cause is established.

3) Personal Feeling about the School
I personally was accepted to several law schools and I visited a lot as well as participated in some mock trial competitions and I saw a lot of different law schools. There were some that I really liked and some that I really didn't like. My reasons were completely personal to me and what I liked you may have hated and vice versa. You can talk to professors, students, admins, etc and really see first hand what the school is like. I highly recommend doing that prior to making a 3 year 100,000+ commitment just make sure the school fits your personality.

4. Specialty Programs
This ties in more with location rather than the school, but you can still use it as a factor. For example if you really want to do entertainment law then you should go to law school in New York or L.A. that is where movies, t.v shows, etc are made. Therefore, schools in those locations will have a lot of alumni in the area, adjuncts that work in the field will teach in the school, you can get internships at those places during law school and so on. If you want to do entrainment law then going to Idaho law school will not be an ideal spot.

Then there are a few schools that do mock trial competitions which are good and you can kind of see how seriously a school takes that by how many teams they have and how well they do. For example South Texas law school is amazing at Trial Advocacy competitions I have seen there courtroom and they almost won every competition I was ever win they are just good at it. If there is some area of law you are interested in you can look at to what programs they offer.

However, if you are not particularly interested in any area of law don't consider it and don't worry about it. Plenty of law students and even lawyers don't really know what they want to do.

5 Rankings
This is a factor, but remember U.S. News is nothing more than a for-profit magazine offering an opinion. They rank more than law schools and Albuquerque New Mexico is the best place to live now according to them and South & North Dakota will be the best places to live in 2032. One of the main factors for South Dakota being selected as a hot spot in 2032 is because they estimate dental visits will be easy to access. I am not making this up either straight from their website http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/the-best-life/2012/08/07/here-are-the-best-places-to-livein-2032 and http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/real-estate/articles/2009/06/08/best-places-to-live-2009

I highly doubt you are going to make life altering choice and move to Albuquerque because a magazine says you should or start saving to move to South Dakota in 2032. Use the same logic when choosing your law school don't let some magazine be your main guide. No harm in considering it, but don't make a life altering choice based on a magazine.

Conclusion

Those are just some factors to consider and hopefully some of that info is helpful. Also remember I am nothing more than an anonymous internet poster and you should get info directly from people you can interact with face to face to assess their credibility. Good luck .



306
Law School Admissions / Re: A question whether I should apply or not
« on: October 27, 2012, 08:27:25 PM »
A 2.7 isn't great, but you can certainly get into an ABA school with a decent LSAT. Furthermore, if your in a minority many schools give you extra points in your application. I would recommend simply taking the LSAT see how that goes and if you get a 150 or above combined with a 2.7 I imagine a few schools would at the very least seriously consider your application. Lawschoolnumbers.com is a pretty good site on top of LSAC which can give you some guidance as to what you need to get on the LSAT for the particular schools you are interested in.

Also to save money on law school applications you should attend an LSAC forum there are usually several of these a year and if you simply go up and talk to schools many will give you a fee waiver.

307
Law School Admissions / Re: Chances for BC Law
« on: October 27, 2012, 08:11:13 PM »
Yea I would assume those numbers would get you in to BC, but there are no guarantees. Lawschoolnumbers.com is a pretty good website aside from LSAC to help in estimating your chances.

The extracurriculars are great, but most schools simply look to the numbers. One other thing to consider is with your numbers you can get a huge scholarship at some other schools and graduating with minimal debt can be better than graduating with 150,000 in debt accruing interest.

Good luck on getting into BC.




308
Law School Admissions / Re: Applying before graduation?
« on: October 25, 2012, 12:07:31 PM »
Roald is correct most law schools have an application deadline in January. So if you want to enroll in Fall 2014 you should submit your application in Fall of 2013. The reality is the earlier you apply the better your chances. Furthermore, many people apply to law school before they have officially graduated from undergrad, which sounds like the position you are in. They will look at it since your GPA is basically set if your in the last semester of undergrad and they will just look to your LSAT.

As for financial aid etc will get taken care of when you start law school and the process was quite easy for me and everyone I went to school with.

One thing worth doing that I did which saved me nearly 1,000 in application fees was going to a LSAC forum go to each schools both write your LSAC number down and many schools will give you a fee-waiver in an e-mail. Or e-mail you prior to the forum telling you to come to their both and they will give you a fee waiver if you have the e-mail. I applied to about 20 schools for free this way and since you have time I recommend doing that. I think it might also help you slightly in admissions as it shows a sincere interest in the school if you stop by their booth.

All you can do now is keep your grades high and do well on the LSAT if you haven't taken it yet. Good luck.


309
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: How important is location?
« on: October 22, 2012, 11:46:00 AM »
Practically speaking location is probably the most important factor to consider when choosing a law school for several reasons explained below.

1) LAW SCHOOL DOES NOT EXIST IN A VACUUM
Although law school is difficult you will have plenty of time to socialize and more importantly you will deal with the realities of living in one of the most crowded and diverse cities on a day to day basis. If you attend law school in New York you will deal with the subway, crowds, noise, etc.  So first if your from Tennesee this will be a big culture shock.

On top of that you will be far away from your family, friends, and comforts of home. You will go to a new city in a new school not knowing anyone and this can be difficult for many people. If you have not been away from home before this may be something to consider. I have lived in New York City and tell you it is not for everyone and although it may sound glamorous and look cool on T.V. there are a lot of headaches attached with living in NY. However, there are a lot of amazing things as well, but starting something as a difficult as law school away from all your support group family, friends, etc can be to much to handle for some and others do great it is a very individual thing.

2) IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN NEW YORK THEN LAW SCHOOL IN NEW YORK
As Roald suggests if you want to live in New York then go to law school in New York. There are 7 law schools in NY state alone and 3 more in New Jersey not to mention numerous people from around the country are seeking in NY jobs. So most NY places are not likely to fly out of state to Tennessee, Memphis, or even Vanderbilt there are plenty of recent grads looking for work in NY city as it is.

Furthermore, you can get internships in school in NY if your in NY. You can't clerk for a NY judge 20 hours a week during law school if your in NY and furthermore, even if you wanted to have an interview out in New York you would need a flight, hotel, etc and since there are already thousands of recent grads in NY looking for work a firm is not going to spend money on those items you will cover the cost yourself and on a law student salary of 0 dollars a week that can be a lot of money.

On top of that your professors and career services departments will know people locally so at Hofstra the career services will interact with primarily NY firms and agencies. While in Tennessee they will work with Tennessee firms and agencies.

3) COST
This is a real consideration and if you can live at home and get cheap tuition that is huge. You may not end up liking living in NY as it is not for everybody, but the debt you incur there will be very real and accruing interest. So really think about how much you want to live in NY before accruing 200,000+ in debt accruing 8% interest a year.

Especially since it is certainly possible to go to law school in Tennessee and pass & take the NY bar then move to NY trying to find a job. Although for the reasons stated above this may be difficult to accomplish finding a job in NY city when you have no affiliation with NY and thousands of other recent JD's will be looking for work well be difficult.

4) REALITY OF LAW SCHOOL
Law school is a long 3 years and most people make new friends get into a serious relationship, get an apartment they like, and simply get settled in over 3 years wherever they are. Therefore, if you go to law school in Tennesee or Memphis you may get into a serious relationship, get a job your comforable with, etc etc and odds are you won't leave. Most people I went to law school with stayed in the location I'm in, but during 1L many people said they planned to move to NY, L.A., or somewhere else after graduation. Some did, but the vast majority stayed put for the factors I mentioned above.

5) CONCLUSION
In my anonymous internet poster opinion which doesn't mean a lot location is probably the biggest factor to consider when choosing a law school. If your dream is to be a lawyer in NY the best way to make that happen is by going to law school in New York. However, if you have never lived there I would consider doing that and making sure you like it before making a 3 year 200,000 commitment on something you simply think will be amazing. NY has a lot of great things, but a lot of annoyances that are not for everybody. Good luck to you.


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