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Messages - livinglegend

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321
Rob is correct there are some schools that emphasize particular areas more than others as evidenced by the provided links. However, I don't know if it is always the best idea to select a law school based on a specialty program as many OL's realistically have no idea what they want to do. I remember when I started thinking IP law would be great after one elective class in the area I knew it was not for me. Had I moved across the country and paid a lot more money to attend a school with a solid IP program it would not have turned out well.

From your post you stated "I think I might like to go into labor law" if you had some deep passion for a particular area i.e. your friend was unlawfully executed and your passion was to end the death penalty or something then the quality of a specialty program might be appropriate, but if it is an area of law you think might interest you  don't make it a major basis for your decision. You can use it is a factor, but there are a lot of things to consider when choosing a law school. The reality is very few incoming 0L's have any idea what they really want to do since you know very little about the law prior to enrolling and even after law school your interests can change greatly.


322
Law School Applications / Re: Good GPA, Low LSAT
« on: November 07, 2012, 04:32:35 PM »
To be frank I don't know if any ABA school will take a 136 unless you are a URM and even then 136 is probably not going to work. However, that doesn't mean you can't retake I believe the vast majority of schools no longer average LSAT scores so there is nothing to lose. Lawschoolnumbers.com is a pretty good site to help you see what your chances at a certain school are.

The good GPA will be helpful, but you should definitely retake. Good luck.

323
Roald offers a lot of good advice and it sounds like your major issue was the bladder, but what will stop the same thing from happening during the next test administration? If you think there is something you can do to prevent that then retake, but nerves/etc foreseen circumstances are simply are part of any high pressure test situation.

A 151 can get you into some schools and Tulsa/OKC are options. OU is highly unlikely to take you with a 151 and the extracurricualrs matter very little to admissions committee unless you are on the fence it is almost a 100% numbers game. You can see this on lawschoolnumbers.com to get a realistic look at admissions into other schools.

APPLYING NEXT YEAR
I don't thin any school would particularly care if you applied one year and then again, but you will just spend 100's if not thousands of dollars on applications. Law school is not going anywhere if you think you can do better on the LSAT then go for it.

Another thing you option is you can apply to law schools with your current apps, but take the February LSAT and the adcoms will likely wait to make any decisions until those results come in. That is probably the best option if you want to start law school as soon as possible.


324
Law School Applications / Re: Low LSAT but decent UGPA
« on: November 05, 2012, 07:22:11 PM »
I believe most if not all schools no longer average your LSAT scores so you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by retaking. However, with a 148 and 3.4 you can probably get into some schools in Illinois I believe Southern Illinois might be a possibility and also if you are a URM you will have a good chance at a lot of schools. Lawschoolnumbers.com is a really good site to let you know what your chances are.

If you did everything you could do and 148 is the best it could also be an indication law school is not an ideal option. The LSAT is nothing in comparison to law school exams and the bar exam is 100x harder than law school. If you really hated the experience of studying for the LSAT or the standardizerd test-taking it may not be path you want to pursue. A 148 is not terrible you still finished in about the middle of the pack of people who were motivated enough to go to law school, showed up for the test, and didn't cancel their score. There are options, but they are limited and whether you did everything you could do on the LSAT is something only you know. However, if you think you can improve your score go for it.

325
Well one thing to realize is that getting a 163-165 is not easy it puts you in the top 13% of test takers. http://www.cambridgelsat.com/resources/data/lsat-percentiles-table/ . People that take the LSAT are college graduates who want to go to law school so they are generally quite bright and scoring n the top 13% is not easy.

This same logic will apply wherever you attend law school everybody is pretty confident they will be in the top 10% of their class, but again people that go to law school are good at school and 100% cannot be in the top 10%.

As to your score you stated you typically got a 160 in practice and a 156 overall that seems about right as many people do a little worse under the "REAL TIME and REAL STRESS" situations. However, one positive is that I believe most schools no longer average LSAT scores so if you retake you have nothing to lose and you also have plenty of time, but getting a 163-165 may not happen. If everybody was capable of getting into Harvard, Yale, UCLA, etc people would do it, but everybody has a ceiling.

156 can get you into plenty of ABA schools with a scholarship. I had a 3.2/158 and got into numerous schools with substantial scholarships.

I have also posted on this board several times about factors to consider when choosing law schools and going to the "best" one is not always best for your specific situation. If you want to pay a private tutor you can, but there are no guarantees and if you realistically did everything you could do it probably won't improve that much and in all honesty a 156 is not a terrible score you were in the 34% of people who are ambitious enough to go to law school and actually followed through with the test.


326
Reviews, Visits, and Rankings / Re: Washburn info?
« on: November 04, 2012, 07:50:17 PM »
No specific info regarding Washburn I have never been to Kansas yet alone the campus, but I think there are a few factors any potential law student should consider.


1) Location
In my opinion this is the most important factor when choosing a law school. If you want to live in Kansas after graduation go to law school Kansas and Washburn will probably work out fine. If you want to be a lawyer in New York then go to law school in New York.


As for post employment prospects the vast majority of schools only have connections in their immediate area and on top of that you will get internships etc in the area your attending school. For example if your going to law school in L.A. you cannot do an internship in New York during the school year and since there are no shortage of law schools in New York or New Jersey there would be no reason to reach out to L.A. In Kansas I imagine most law firms, agencies, etc want to hire people from Kansas schools.

Also law school doesn't exist in a vaccum and the day to day life will play a factor. For example if your ultra liberal, gay, etc going to law school in Arkansas is probably not going to go well and if your ultra conservative going to law school in San Francisco won't go well. If your a person that loves night life etc going to law school in East Lansing Michigan or Tulsa Oklahoma will be hard to handle. If your someone that likes a quiet atmosphere then don't attend New York Law School in the heart of New York's Financial District. These are all factors that are unique to each individual and really consider location.  Not to mention you may get homesick if you move far away it depends on you as an individual. Or if your close to your family or have a big support group in a certain location that can be a huge factor both during and after law school.

2) Cost
Washburn offers in-state tuition of 16,000 per year which is great compared to the vast majority of school which charge 35-40k per year. This will be a savings of 48,000 over three years and considering your loans will be accruing interest at a rate 6 or 8%.

So cost is a huge pro for this school even if you may get merit scholarships at other schools. The reason Washburn is better than getting a scholarship is that a lot of the merit scholarships are based on conditions that can be very difficult to maintain in-state tuition is guaranteed which again is awesome.

3) Reality of Legal Education
Each ABA law school quite literally teaches you the same thing your first year will be contracts, torts, civil procedure, legal writing, property, criminal law, criminal procedure, and constitutional law or some slight variation, but all those courses will be taken. In Torts you will read the Palsgraff case, Contracts Hadley v. Baxendale etc and all you do at any ABA school is read Supreme Court Decisions and the Supreme Court doesn't take time to write different opinions for different schools. Whether you read the Palsgraff case at Harvard or in West Virginia the firecrackers get dropped and proximate cause is established.

4) Personal Feeling about the School
I personally was accepted to several law schools and I visited a lot as well as participated in some mock trial competitions and I saw a lot of different law schools. There were some that I really liked and some that I really didn't like. My reasons were completely personal to me and what I liked you may have hated and vice versa. You can talk to professors, students, admins, etc and really see first hand what the school is like. I highly recommend doing that prior to making a 3 year 100,000+ commitment just make sure the school fits your personality.

5). Specialty Programs
This ties in more with location rather than the school, but you can still use it as a factor. For example if you really want to do entertainment law then you should go to law school in New York or L.A. that is where movies, t.v shows, etc are made. Therefore, schools in those locations will have a lot of alumni in the area, adjuncts that work in the field will teach in the school, you can get internships at those places during law school and so on. If you want to do entrainment law then going to Idaho law school will not be an ideal spot.

Then there are a few schools that do mock trial competitions which are good and you can kind of see how seriously a school takes that by how many teams they have and how well they do. For example South Texas law school is amazing at Trial Advocacy competitions I have seen there courtroom and they almost won every competition I was ever win they are just good at it. If there is some area of law you are interested in you can look at to what programs they offer.

However, if you are not particularly interested in any area of law don't consider it and don't worry about it. Plenty of law students and even lawyers don't really know what they want to do.

6) Rankings
This is a factor, but remember U.S. News is nothing more than a for-profit magazine offering an opinion. They rank more than law schools and Albuquerque New Mexico is the best place to live now according to them and South & North Dakota will be the best places to live in 2032. One of the main factors for South Dakota being selected as a hot spot in 2032 is because they estimate dental visits will be easy to access. I am not making this up either straight from their website http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/the-best-life/2012/08/07/here-are-the-best-places-to-livein-2032 and http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/real-estate/articles/2009/06/08/best-places-to-live-2009

I highly doubt you are going to make life altering choice and move to Albuquerque because a magazine says you should or start saving to move to South Dakota in 2032. Use the same logic when choosing your law school don't let some magazine be your main guide. No harm in considering it, but don't make a life altering choice based on a magazine.

Conclusion
Those are just some factors to consider and hopefully some of that info is helpful. Also remember I am nothing more than an anonymous internet poster and you should get info directly from people you can interact with face to face to assess their credibility. Good luck .

327
Realistically no schools focus on any particularly area of the law. Your first year at any ABA school will be contracts, torts, civil procedure, property, criminal law, constitutional law, criminal procedure, and legal writing. Or some variation on that and you will take the remaining ones in second year. Then evidence, wills & trusts, corporations, trial advocacy will likely be required or highly suggested. Then you will have 20 or so units left.

Some schools may offer an employment and labor law class. Some may also offer a clinic or two at most and you can see this on the course schedules of any schools your into, but no school will focus on labor/employment law completely. ABA schools have to follow ABA guidelines and that consists of the courses listed above.

Hope that is helpful.

328
Studying for the LSAT / Re: Guidance Needed please 162 LSAT 2.58 GPA
« on: November 02, 2012, 06:27:29 PM »
As Roald suggests your kind of all over the map on the schools. The reality is law school teaches you the same thing no matter where you go and there really isn't such a thing as a "better school" or anything like that. There are a few top schools which might open some doors i.e. Harvard, Yale, or something like that. However, none of the schools you listed are at that level.

Here is a list of things I think any potential 0L should consider before going to law school.

1) Location
In my opinion this is the most important factor when choosing a law school. If you want to live in San Francisco after graduation go to law school in San Francisco, if your from Idaho and want to be close to your family after graduation go to law school in Idaho. The vast majority of schools only have connections in their immediate area and on top of that you will get internships etc in the area your attending school. For example if your going to law school in L.A. you cannot do an internship in New York during the school year and since there are no shortage of law schools in New York or New Jersey there would be no reason to reach out to L.A.

Also law school doesn't exist in a vaccum and the day to day life will play a factor. For example if your ultra liberal, gay, etc going to law school in Arkansas is probably not going to go well and if your ultra conservative going to law school in San Francisco won't go well. If your a person that loves night life etc going to law school in East Lansing Michigan or Tulsa Oklahoma will be hard to handle. If your someone that likes a quiet atmosphere then don't attend New York Law School in the heart of New York's Financial District. These are all factors that are unique to each individual and really consider location.

2) Cost
Almost every law school except for a few schools that offer in-state tuition like Florida International, South Dakota, North Dakota, and few others tuition is going to run you approximtely 100k and if your in a location like N.Y. or San Francisco the living expenses for 3 years will probably add on another 50-100k. All of which is accruing interest often at 6 or 8%. This means you can have 8,000 or so in interest alone a year so it is important to really consider cost.

Many schools offer merit scholarships that should be considered even if other schools are "higher ranked" for example if you can get a full scholarship at Gonzaga University compared to paying full tuition at Seattle University then it might be wise to take it since I would imagine most people do not consider either much school must better than the other.

3) Reality of Legal Education
Each ABA law school quite literally teaches you the same thing your first year will be contracts, torts, civil procedure, legal writing, property, criminal law, criminal procedure, and constitutional law or some slight variation, but all those courses will be taken. In Torts you will read the Palsgraff case, Contracts Hadley v. Baxendale etc and all you do at any ABA school is read Supreme Court Decisions and the Supreme Court doesn't take time to write different opinions for different schools. Whether you read the Palsgraff case at Harvard or in West Virginia the firecrackers get dropped and proximate cause is established.

4) Personal Feeling about the School
I personally was accepted to several law schools and I visited a lot as well as participated in some mock trial competitions and I saw a lot of different law schools. There were some that I really liked and some that I really didn't like. My reasons were completely personal to me and what I liked you may have hated and vice versa. You can talk to professors, students, admins, etc and really see first hand what the school is like. I highly recommend doing that prior to making a 3 year 100,000+ commitment just make sure the school fits your personality.

5). Specialty Programs
This ties in more with location rather than the school, but you can still use it as a factor. For example if you really want to do entertainment law then you should go to law school in New York or L.A. that is where movies, t.v shows, etc are made. Therefore, schools in those locations will have a lot of alumni in the area, adjuncts that work in the field will teach in the school, you can get internships at those places during law school and so on. If you want to do entrainment law then going to Idaho law school will not be an ideal spot.

Then there are a few schools that do mock trial competitions which are good and you can kind of see how seriously a school takes that by how many teams they have and how well they do. For example South Texas law school is amazing at Trial Advocacy competitions I have seen there courtroom and they almost won every competition I was ever win they are just good at it. If there is some area of law you are interested in you can look at to what programs they offer.

However, if you are not particularly interested in any area of law don't consider it and don't worry about it. Plenty of law students and even lawyers don't really know what they want to do.

6) Rankings
This is a factor, but remember U.S. News is nothing more than a for-profit magazine offering an opinion. They rank more than law schools and Albuquerque New Mexico is the best place to live now according to them and South & North Dakota will be the best places to live in 2032. One of the main factors for South Dakota being selected as a hot spot in 2032 is because they estimate dental visits will be easy to access. I am not making this up either straight from their website http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/the-best-life/2012/08/07/here-are-the-best-places-to-livein-2032 and http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/real-estate/articles/2009/06/08/best-places-to-live-2009

I highly doubt you are going to make life altering choice and move to Albuquerque because a magazine says you should or start saving to move to South Dakota in 2032. Use the same logic when choosing your law school don't let some magazine be your main guide. No harm in considering it, but don't make a life altering choice based on a magazine.

Conclusion
Those are just some factors to consider and hopefully some of that info is helpful. Also remember I am nothing more than an anonymous internet poster and you should get info directly from people you can interact with face to face to assess their credibility. Good luck .

Admissions Question
Those soft factors might help somewhat, but the reality is law school admission is based almost entirely on numbers. Lawschoolnumbers.com is a pretty good site to see where you have a chance and what scholarship opportunities might be available.
 

329
General Board / Re: 2.9 GPA-Looking to get into ASU Law or USD
« on: November 02, 2012, 04:11:24 PM »
I have been to University of San Diego several times and find it to be a beautiful campus. I also really like San Diego, but I know nothing about the law school itself. I have never set foot in Arizona or gone to Arizona State.

It looks like ASU offers in-state tuition and it is only 21k per year and living expenses are ony 20k per year. So 41k a year for the J.D. 123,000 total

USD is 41k per year and also 21k per year for living expenses, but that will euqal out to 186,000 for the JD.

As I said before the education is basically the same at every ABA school so I won't claim one is any better than the other, but one is definetly cheaper. However, if you want to live in San Diego go to law school in San Diego. If you want to live in Arizona go to Arizona State.

I remember when I was a 0L thinking with enough research I could find the "perfect school" the one that would guarantee everything would work out, but I can tell you that doesn't exist. Just use your common sense and gut. There is no right answer any ABA school will get you a ticket to a bar exam what you do from there is up to you.

330
General Board / Re: 2.9 GPA-Looking to get into ASU Law or USD
« on: November 02, 2012, 02:30:57 PM »
Questions like that are better served from the direct source. Call a military recruiter and they will be happy to tell you about all programs they offer. If the military is an option you can also start a career as a JAG lawyer fairly easily after law school. They would likely be able to discuss that with you as well.

An anonymous internet poster will only give you wrong or incomplete information regarding a specific question like that so go to the source. Good luck

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