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Messages - livinglegend

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Online Law Schools / Re: St. Francis Law
« on: October 03, 2013, 03:25:00 PM »
I am a strong beleiver in brick and mortar law schools. Online undergrad or other less rigorous programs can be done online, but law school is difficult and requires extensive studying. You cannot cram at the last minute and I know my school did a study of those who used BarBri online and those who attended class and the result was those who attended the courses did substantially better than those who studied online.

There are individuals who can and have succeeded from online schools, but for the vast majority of people it will not work out. Just my two cents as an anonymous internet poster.

Law School Admissions / Re: Major Study Advice
« on: September 10, 2013, 09:39:15 PM »
If your from Houston and want to live there I think South Texas Law School might be a good choice if your interested in litigation. They are one of the best litigation schools out there and I competed in one of their trials and was very impressed with the school.  Assuming you get a decent LSAT score and want to live in Houston I think it is a great option just an FYI.

As far as getting into law school all you need to do is graduate with a solid GPA and take the LSAT. The other factors really don't matter much and I am sure you will get everything done.

Good luck

Studying for the LSAT / Re: Time to allot for studying
« on: September 09, 2013, 10:27:10 PM »
I wish you the best hopefully you get a 170, but again most people have their limits and odds are no matter how much you study you won't get a 170. The same way no matter how much I work out and play basketball Lebron James will be better than me.

There are just limitations so do your best for 170, but don't be discouraged if you don't get there. Good luck.

Law School Admissions / Re: Law school and engineering undergrad?
« on: September 09, 2013, 05:57:09 PM »
The patent bar is also an option, but again if your in the first weeks of freshman year of college focus on knocking out Freshman year before you get to ahead of yourself. Focus your attention on succeeding freshman year that way you have doors open to you later.

Also it is your Freshman year of college live a little bit your only 18-19 once law school, the patent bar, and the LSAT are not going anywhere and will still be there in the next few years.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: Time to allot for studying
« on: September 09, 2013, 05:47:38 PM »
I agree with Miami and hopefully you get a 170, but that is in the top 10% of LSAT takers and those who actually show up to the LSAT are college graduates that are motivated enough to get into law school. So it is the top 10% of tough competition.

Additionally if your diagnostic was 147 odds are with proper studying you can get between a 154-158, which is sufficient to get admitted into an ABA law school. If you get an ABA law school you can succeed as a lawyer and 90% of active lawyers did not attend the top 10% of law schools.

Do everything you can to score as well as possible, but do not get to discouraged if you score under 170. Almost every LSAT taker does.

Good luck with the test.

Current Law Students / Re: Summer Earnings
« on: September 08, 2013, 09:12:06 AM »
Maintain is right on point there is absolutely no way to predict what you will earn during in your Summers. There are a few firms that pay $2,000 a week or more to their summer associates and there are a number of places where you would be an unpaid intern. That is the spectrum of earnings you can expect and as you can see it is a wide spectrum.

The $2,000 a week job is unlikely to obtain you will need to be in the top 10-20% of your class and nothing against you, but there is a 80-90% chance you won't be and even if you are the interview will need to be nailed and other factors need to fall into place so don't count on that happening although if that is what you want I will root for you.

Just so you know what you are getting into if money is a #1 concern for you law school may not be the best profession. I am a lawyer and love my job, but I am not rolling in dough and am still paying off law school loans. I had different options before I went to law school and could have more an extra 0 or two at the end of my account, but I would hate I was doing. I know for some money is priority #1 over job satisfaction and there is nothing wrong with that, but just so you know there are much more lucrative options than the legal profession.

However, if you really want to be a lawyer it can be a great gig.

Transferring / Re: Cooley + Law Review/Moot Court/etc. or MSU with Nothing?
« on: September 06, 2013, 11:27:08 PM »
(I'm passing this question along for a friend)

A friend of mine is a 1L at Cooley and has okay, but not great, stats all around (Decent LSAT and UGPA, lured to Cooley by a scholarship, top 22%). With her numbers right now she's got a presumptive invite to Cooley's law review prereq (they make students take an additional writing class before they get on LR) and an invite to the moot court class. She was also admitted as a transfer to Michigan State University (T3).

MSU apparently isn't super nice to transfers. To do law review you need to participate in the write-on competition in the spring, and you can't even participate in that unless you have their two writing classes or get a waiver (which, if I understood her right, isn't available until after you're accepted). She's missed this year's competition, and apparently she can't do next year's because she'll only have a year left. She says that moot court is basically closed off as well.

She doesn't care where she gets a job, as long as she gets one. Cooley with law review would apparently do okay within Michigan, but, as I think we all are aware, the school isn't really respected outside of the Midwest.

What would you guys do if you were in her situation?

I tried breaking it down into a pro/con.

Staying at Cooley
Pros: Law review. Moot court. Decent placement in Michigan. So many people transfer out that her GPA (and rank) will probably shoot up next year.
Cons: It's probably the most derided T4 in the country. Little employment prospects outside of Michigan and almost zero outside of the midwest. Having to hide your diploma in shame.

Transferring to MSU
Pros: It's not Cooley. Has been on the rise since merging with MSU (I think it'll probably settle as a low T2, somewhere near DePaul). National name recognition.

Do you guys have any other thoughts? What would you do if you were in her situation? ???

It is always tough and my personal feeling with transferring is if you are doing well in an academic setting why rock the boat. Maybe if she was transferring to University of Michigan or an elite institution a transfer might be a good idea, but to transfer schools in the same location to one that is only slight more regarded might not be worth the change.

What your friend should do is negotiate for more scholarship money from Cooley they will not want to lose a top student and your friend may be able to to get 10-20k or more in scholarship money simply by asking.

Another thing to consider when transferring is the individuals personality after 1L clicks are formed and if you attend a new school and are not extremly outgoing it could be a depressing final two years. Also if the student has a chance to be on Law Review have great contacts with professors at Cooley that is more impressive than graduating from MSU. I think employers are more impressed by someone doing extremely well at a less regarded school opposed to a run of the mill student at a more highly regarded school.

Bottom line if I was your friend I would fill out a transfer application and try to get some scholarship money. If Cooley doesn't offer anything then consider actually transferring, but I imagine Cooley will give your friend a little extra cash if she negotiates properly.

I was kind of thinking about this ... I was wondering if there is some consensus about which areas of law are the really insanely difficult (difficult being - most hours put in, most real WORK at the job, etc.), and what areas of laws were known as more laid back (less hours worked, more 'slacking' perhaps?)  - or does it all depend on the particular atmosphere of the firm?

If I had to guess based on the very little I've heard, this elusive "Big Law" seems to be the most hell-ish, while the Real Estate attorneys seem to perhaps have it the easiest? (Well, maybe not - but I've heard of some that work for Sibsy Cline that make about 250,000/year and don't do much, but I also know a lady who works insanely hard as a real estate agent - but she has her own partnered firm).  What about tax attorneys?  They seem to be so looked down upon for some reason, but is it b/c their jobs are easy?  Or is it just easy if they are good at math?

Oh, and don't think I'm *looking* for an easy area of law in which to practice, I was just thinking about it since being "an attorney" can mean SO many things and is really a diverse job.  I also really don't know what area of law interests me yet ... family law seems somewhat interesting, but I won't pretend to know much about it right now :)  I also thinking teaching at a law school might be a great experience when I'm older after getting many years of experience under my belt!

Thanks everyone - I hope this is an interesting disucssion ;)

I think certain areas of the law are easy, but dealing with the people is difficult. Family law is a perfect example of that the law in almost every state is either community property explained here or marital property explained here

The essence of either is that anything accumulated during the marriage through work is split 50/50 between the couples, but anything obtained as inheritance or as a gift is separate property and not split. The law is quite easy to follow, but Family Court gets crazy the emotions run very high and people will spend endless time fighting about inconsequential things to get back at the other spouse.

When children are involved it is even more difficult the standard in almost every state is what is in the best interest of the Child. That is the legal standard what does that mean? Who the hell knows and again parents will fight endlessly over it., which can be very hard to deal with.

So you can see the law in Family Law is fairly straight forward, but the emotional toll and navigating the personalities of your client is extremely difficult.

Tax Law on the other hand is very technical and the law is more difficult and the goal is quite clear save your client as much money as possible so the human element is not very difficult.

If your a litigator handling the pressure of a trial is something certain people can do and others can't. Being able to withstand objections and present a clear case to a jury comes naturally to some and not to others. That can be a difficult route as well and again emotions run high and there is a very subjective human element to litigation.

Since this is a law school discussion board the reality is law school does not really allow you to specialize in any area of law. Technically you can take some courses, but the vast majority of your three years will be spent taking bar related subjects Torts, Contracts, Civil Procedure, Property, Evidence, Corporations, Family Law, Criminal Law, Criminal Procedure, Con Law, Wills & Trusts, and Remedies will be classes you will take at every law school and that makes up the first two years of law school.

Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Barry or Coastal?
« on: September 05, 2013, 05:56:55 PM »
Could not agree more with Maintain satisfaction or disappointment depends entirely on expectations. Believe it or not everyone wants the same thing and there are plenty of people that are passionate about foreclosure defense, family law, criminal law etc. Barry can certainly get you a job doing that or even as a D.A P.D etc. It is also possible to work for firms etc, but harder and some doors will be closed.

Frankly Cravath is not hiring anyone from UM or Barry. You won't find many Supreme Court Clerks fro
 Those schools either.

Reading the OP's post it sound like they have no desire to work for a big firm and want to be an attorney in Orlando certainly doable from Barry. Had the OP I want make a minimum off 100,000 k out the gate and work in a NY firm Barry would be a terrible choice, but each person has their own situations and if someone wants to be an Attorney in Orlando Barry is a fine choice, but outside of that it won't open many doors.

Current Law Students / Re: LSD Needs to Modernize Site
« on: September 05, 2013, 05:29:06 PM »
To bad I always enjoyed this site it was helpful when I was OL then in law school and I enjoy posting on it now.

It is a great site and I wish it the best!

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