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Messages - livinglegend
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« on: October 18, 2013, 10:52:59 AM »
The rankings are not to be taken seriously a school can drop 20-30 spots or rise 20-30 spots an given year because the formula used to rank schools makes very little sense.
Frankly it doesn't need to U.S news is a for profit unregulated opinion offering an opinion, which they are entitled to do. However, law students should not make life altering decisions based on this magazine. Law students should not forget to use their common sense. Obviously Harvard, Yale etc are elite institutions, but whether W &L is ranked 70 or 140 nobody really cares.
I review my lawyer resumes and I can tell you I have never looked at U.S news to in the selection process. Realistically first thing I look at is location I am in the Bay Arra if I resume from Chicago I am going to pads over it just because I don't want to deal with the conversation of paying for flight and hotel for the candidate. Even they are exceptional They will need to move and decide they want to move, which can be a long process and again not something I want to deal with when Hastings, Golden Gate, Davis, Mcgeorge, USF, Boalt, and Santa Clara are all within 100 miles.
That is common sense applied and why law students should not take these rankings to seriously. It is to bad W & L dropped , but I'm sure the professors and facilities and all the students that were there last year are all present.
« on: October 17, 2013, 01:46:03 AM »
That is the beauty of trial competitions and just like real trial nobody cares about what school you went in the heat of litigation. Congrats to the Barry students that won the competition.
« on: October 17, 2013, 01:44:08 AM »
Citylaw offers great advice do not transfer based on your school dropping a few points in the rankings.
When choosing a law school the most important factors are as follows (1) Location (2) Cost (3) Personal Feelings about the school (4) Understanding the Realities of Legal Education and (5) Last and Least U.S. News Rankings.
Location is far away and the most important thing when choosing a law school. I don't know where your law school is in, but if your in Chicago when you graduate you will most likely take the Illinois bar and get a job in Chicago or nearby Chicago regardless of whether you attended Depaul, John Marshall, or even Northwestern.
Cost be wary of Costs your law school's ranking will change during the next two years, but the total amount of money you owe upon graduation will not flucuate and it will accrue interest be careful.
Personal feelings about the school. As you stated you are content at your school, but if you leave you will lose your connections and have to adjust to a new school you may not like.
As Citylaw states legal education is the same whether you attend the 82nd or 94th best school at the end you will use BarBri or Kaplan.
U.S. News is a magazine nothing more it has some credibility, but you should not make a life altering decisoin based on it.
« on: October 13, 2013, 08:31:17 PM »
I never said the stats themselves were incorrect just measuring this many people with their own unique situations is difficult. Not to mention someone can be unemployed on Monday and get a job on Tuesday.
I don't take these statistics that seriously, If you want to look at the actual stats Hofstra had 363 Graduates 282 are employed. 2 are not seeking work, 11 are unknown, and 7 are pursuing graduate degrees. 61 of the 363 are unemployed and considering 71 students didn't pass the bar the first time I imagine a large part of those 61 consist of repeat bar takers.
Additionally, remember that law schools rank their students and half finish in the bottom half of the class and 25% of the class finish in the bottom 25%. If you finish at or near the bottom of your class and/or don't pass the bar the first time your employment prospects starting out will not be amazing, but you overcome a tough start and succeed in the profession, but it will take longer.
Just remember education is a long-term investment and what happens 9 months after graduation is not the end all be all of recent law school graduates.
Also just to throw Paul Campos under the bus one more time the school he is collecting paychecks from has almost the exact same Law School Transperncy score as Hofstra 51.2% v. 51.4% . http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=colorado
The bottom line is Hofstra is an ABA law school the same as all the others. If you graduate and pass the bar you will be a licensed attorney. What you do with that license will have a lot more to do with you than the name of the school on your diploma.
I am not arguing Hofstra is same amazing institution, but it certainly doesn't deserve criticism from the likes of Paul Campos whose school is in the exact same situation as Hofstra.
« on: October 13, 2013, 02:33:42 AM »
Keep going hopefully you get a 170 hell a 180, but don't be surprised if you don't score in the top 1% of LSAT takers. Do everything you can study your ass off and show up for the test the LSAT and each law school final and the bar are extreme stressful tests and until you go through the actual real exam you cannot know what it is like.
Another poster on this site recently took the October test and accurately said the real test was different than practice and it is. There are distractions, pressure, etc and I hope everything goes well, but you never know and again don't be disappointed if you do not get a 170-180 if you actually show up and take the test you will likely get a solid enough score to get into an ABA school. From that point you can move forward and get a license to practice law.
« on: October 13, 2013, 02:28:59 AM »
Paralegal programs can be a good idea before making the law school jump. I got a paralegal certificate and worked as a paralegal for one year prior to attending law school and I feel like it gave me comfort and I was also certain I wanted to be a lawyer. The paralegal path might be a good idea, but it will not likely help you get into a T14 school.
Getting into a T14 school is extremely difficult and doesn't happen for the majority of people. With a 2.3 GPA the doors are probably closed and a 160 LSAT will be insufficient as well. You can get into an ABA law school and have a successful legal career, but the T14 is probably out. However, believe it or not 90% of practicing lawyers did not attend the top 10% of law schools.
« on: October 13, 2013, 02:23:09 AM »
Statistics can be manipulated to say whatever they want and I am all for lawschooltransparency's mission, but frankly what does "underemployed" mean? http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=hofstra
here is their and in the ABA data it says 218 of 363 graduates have bar passage required jobs and this is only 9 months after graduation, which is a flaw in the data collection. The reality is no ABA law student from any school can even be employed in a bar passage required job until 7 months after they graduate. The reason for this is you graduate in May then you take the bar in July and results in most states are released in October or November. So if you graduate in May you cannot work as a licensed attorney until 6 months after you graduate then very few people hire during the holiday season and you can't even really look for work until January, which is 9 months.
Additionally, the situation of each person is unique to them I know one person from my school got a job as a D.A., but failed his drug test he is not employed, because he has a drug problem it has nothing to with the school.
Another classmate of mine had a father that was diagnosed with Cancer and had 6 months to live instead of looking for work my classmate stayed with his father until the end. He found a job, but again it shows not everyone is in the same boat.
On top of that half of the class as Hofstra finished in the bottom half and 25% of the students finished in the bottom quarter and if you finish in the bottom quarter of Hofstra is going to be easy? No.
Further analysis 21% of their students did not pass the bar and that means only 79% of students can obtain jobs that require bar passage. Again, passing the bar has a lot more to do with the individual than the school itself it is an insanely difficult test that requires intense focus and preparation for months. Many people are unsuccessful their first go around.
Bottom line is these stats do not really say anything you cannot measure people in this manner. You can measure LSAT scores of incoming students that is objective criteria, but what each person does in their career and their goals are unique to each individual and not every single law school graduate is 25 year old kid who passes the bar on their first try, wants to go straight into the working world, and has no obstacles during the timeframe right after graduation.
Any ABA school Hofstra included will provide you with a solid legal education and provide you with the opportunity to take the bar exam. If you successfully pass the bar and are deemed morally fit to practice you will be given a law license and what you do with that has a lot more to do with you than the name of your law school.
« on: October 13, 2013, 02:07:50 AM »
Attrition rate is something to consider, but an important thing to realize is that attrition does not always mean failing out. Barry for example has a 17.5% attrition rate and 48 students did not come back for 2L. However, only 20 of the 48 did not come back due to academic reasons
Of the remaining 28 students 21 transferred likely to better schools no it is not bad attrition it is good for those 21 students. The other 7 students likely decided the law was not for them or went on to some other opportunity.
In reality well under 10% failed out due to academic reasons and the majority of academic attrition comes from part-time studnets who try to balance legal education and a job , which doesn't work out.
I don't think anyone is arguing Barry or Coastal are elite institutions, but you really need to read into these statistics there is a lot more detail in them.
« on: October 12, 2013, 03:37:19 PM »
These are just stats and yes there are unemployed attroneys out there, but there are plenty of employed ones as well. Believe it or not there are also unemployed M.B.A's, Teachers, Accountants etc
Here are a few articles that sound quite familar regarding other professions http://www.city-data.com/forum/work-employment/1004020-think-twice-before-you-get-accounting.html
a three second google search created that and I could find more legit articles, but the bottom line is no matter what career you go into starting out and succeeding is difficult there is no Golden Ticket out there.
As for Hofstra employment stats check back in five years and see what these people are doing. Additionally, these stats are very low quality since their majority of students do not keep in contact with their Alma Matters anywhere. I never filled out the "survey" for my law school so according to their stats I am unemployed, but I am not. I should have filled it out, but it has been years now and I never did. It is a voluntary survey and most people don't feel comfortable handing out salary information, personal details, etc and these surveys are completely voluntary there is no penalty for not filing them out and plenty of people don't
If your high school contacted you right now and asked for detailed information on everything you are doing would you take the time to fill it out? Maybe and I imagine 100% of your high school classmates would not fill it out and law schools run into the same problem.
There are jobs out there for lawyers from Hofstra or any other ABA school, but it is tough and if you turn into someone that bitches & moans about how unfair everything is you will not get a job. Life isn't fair and the legal profession is a very difficult and stressful profession and saying it is not fair all the time will not get you very far in it.
Paul Campos can have his opinions and I applaud his marketing ability he has probably made millions off all his publications, but I would not call him any sort of expert on anything other than marketing. Take his opinions for what they are, but I really don't respect a law professor in Colorado bashing a school in New York, which he has probably never even been too.
« on: October 12, 2013, 02:36:27 PM »
Yea Paul Campos I love how he critcizes professors not having any practical experience yet he didn't even last a year in the real world as an attorney.
Here is the Bio from Colorado Law School http://lawweb.colorado.edu/profiles/profile.jsp?id=10
Graduated from law school in 1989 then worked for a "Chicago Law Firm" doing what who knows and in less than a year this anonymous Chicago Firm where he can report nothing of he moved on to teach at Colorado in 1990.
Excellent Practical Experience Mr. Campos.
I am sure he is a fine professor, but he is the classic example of what he criticizes. An unseasoned attorney with on practical experience more focused on publishing and making money than preparing his students for a legal career, but maintaining a prestigious law professor position so he has a forum to get his books published.
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