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Messages - livinglegend

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191
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Depaul or Loyola chicago
« on: March 01, 2013, 03:17:32 AM »
Before you read my post realize that anyone posting on this board or others is nothing more than an anonymous internet poster that knows nothing about you, your situation, or what is best for you. Whether you attend law school and where you attend it will be a life altering decision and therefore your best bet is to talk to people with direct experience from the school. Any information you receive on internet boards is far from credible and for all you know I could be a bum in a library posting all it takes to post on this board is an internet connection so please take all advice from internet boards with a major grain of salt.

Anti is correct that you should not spend 60,000 more to attend a higher ranked school. Remember U.S. News is nothing more than a magazine offering an opinion and you should not make a 3 year 100,000 life altering decision based on what they think. Remember U.S. News ranks more than law schools for example they claim Alberqueue, NM is the best place to live right now http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/real-estate/articles/2009/06/08/best-places-to-live-2009 .

Are you going to move to New Mexico because U.S. News says so? I imagine not and your choice of law school should be no different. I strongly encourage anyone going to law school to use their common sense and not have a for profit unregulated magazines opinion be the basis of a life altering decision. 

What you should do is visit both schools the culture well be different and see which one suits you better. You will be spending 3 years of your life there make sure you can stand it during a visit. When I was a 0L I visited several different schools and some I liked others I hated, but that doesn't mean we will have the same opinions. This is your life so make sure to visit the schools and see what fits you.

As for the scholarship what are the conditions on it. Often a law school will require you to maintain a 3.0 or maintain some sort of class rank. I know as a OL you truly think you will easily get a 3.0, but the law school curve only allows 35% of people typically to have a 3.0. This is nothing against you, but there is a 65% chance you will not be in the top 35% so if that is the requirement for the scholasrhip don't make it the basis of your decision, because there is a good chance it will be gone for years 2 and 3.

Another thing to realize is that legal education is exactly the same at ABA schools. Your first year will consist of torts, contracts, civil procedure, etc. You will read Supreme Court Cases like Pennoyer v. Neff in Civ Pro, Palsgraff in Torts, etc. The Supreme Court does not write separate opinions for different law schools what you learn is literally the same whether you are at Depaul or Chicago so I really don't know how U.S. News determines Loyola is 67 this year and Depaul is 87 this year. I actually do know the forumula it makes no sense and as you can see from this chart schools change drastically year by year Depaul was ranked higher than Loyola in 2009. I assure you nothing changed at either school and a 0L in 2009 that chose Depaul based on rank is now saying WTF Loyola is now higher. I just cannot stress enough do not make a life altering decision based on a magazine.

If this were University of Chicago v. Depaul then consider it, but nobodoy cares about the difference between 67 and 87.

As for Anti's crusade to use Law School Transparency please remember these are far from accurate. First off having gone to law school I can tell you many people have no desire to become lawyers. I knew numerous people who did joint MBA/JD programs and went into business, others did JD/Clinical Psychology Degrees, there were numerous others that were insanely rich and just went to law school for the experience, then there were numerous others that did not pass the bar, and then with the ones that did pass the bar and wanted to become lawyers many of them did not report their information, because it is not required to do so . Therefore, this statistics are highly flawed.

With that said the legal market is tough and neither of these schools will guarantee you a job, but I don't know of any profession or educational institution that guarantees you a job at graduation other than West point and Annapolis. If you really want to be a lawyer then I encourage you to attend law school and see, which of these two schools is a fit for you. Do not make U.S. News the sole basis of a life altering decision. Good luck should you pursue a legal career.


192
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law?
« on: February 28, 2013, 12:02:11 AM »
I don't know where you get 250,000 from their tuition is 19,000 per year http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/publications/2012og/aba4973.pdf (direct from LSAC)  19,000 x 3=57,000 in tuition not 250,000.

As for the 26.7% again where do get these numbers LSAC says it is 86% employment. Now not everyone in law school has any desire to practice law and the circumstances of individual are so varied that these stats are essentially useless on top of the fact that many people fail to report their information because it is not mandatory. Do you fill out every survey that comes your way? Probably not and when you get something 9 months after you graduate from your law school it is the last thing on most grads mind.

As for the lawyer yes I am, but maybe I am just some insane delusional person all it takes to post on this board is an internet connection. Therefore, OP before making a life altering decision really understand what you read on this board or others should be taken with a major grain of salt. I have never set foot on the Thomas Jefferson Law School Campus and I am assuming Anti has never attended a law school class so we are some of the last people you should be listening to when choosing whether to commit 57,000 in tuition or more importantly 3 years of the prime of your life.

Anti as for the other professions I listed my point is you can make an argument that any profession is a bad idea. There are numerous boards and posters such as yourself who say do not become a CPA, Cop, firefighter, etc. This world is a cruel nasty place and nothing will be handed to you. So my point if OP really wants to be a lawyer he should pursue it, because there is not some easy path to take.

Feel free to continue ripping on people, but again OP realize we are nothing more than anonymous internet posters so please do not take anything said on here to seriously when making a life altering decision such as whether or not to attend law school and where to attend it. Should you pursue law school I wish you good luck and feel free to personal message me regarding things related to the practice of law in California, where I am licensed. If you choose another career path that is fine to, but make sure it is one that will keep you happy education is a long-term investment and if you choose the law school path it will be hard to get off of. If you go some other graduate school route that path will be hard to get off as well.


193
Transferring / Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
« on: February 27, 2013, 11:48:15 PM »
MycousinVinny one thing to understand is that Jack, myself, and Anti are three anonymous internet posters on the internet who you have never met and know nothing about you.  Furthermore, I know I have never set foot on the Appalachian Law school Campus or even the State of Virginia and I imagine the same is true for Jack and Anti. Feel free to listen to us, but review Michael Scott's statement http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvZBg7qLzU8 makes me laugh every time, but it is so true we could say anything we want without repercussion. When making a life altering decision such as whether to attend law school and move to a small town in Virginia and pay likely 100,000 you should contact people with direct experience from the school. Here is a list of lawyers from Appalachian http://www.superlawyers.com/lawschool/Appalachian-School-of-Law/fad60298-84c4-102c-aca4-000e0c6dcf76.html?l_uuid=e29bdaf9-2fbc-4369-b4b1-65e53af754d0 e-mail them see what they say, because they know far more than anyone posting anonymously on the internet who has not set foot on the campus.


With that said I think Jack's make some great points above. You can bust your ass and be the smartest guy in the class, but your computer could crash during exams, your Mom could get cancer the week before finals, etc, etc. Even without those extreme and unlikely scenarios you need to be in the top 10-20% to transfer and there is an 80% chance that won't happen. I guarantee you everyone at Appalachian will have a "reason' for their LSAT score or GPA and once they are in law school they will capitalize and be in the top 10%, but 100% of people think that. 90% will be wrong and even if you overcome the 90% odds of being in the top 10% many schools may have a policy like the one Jack encountered, some may only care about law school GPA, the list goes on and on, but I would be a substantial amount of money that if you attend Appalachian you will not transfer.

Now with that said does that mean you cannot have a career as a lawyer? No plenty of people succeed from every ABA law school, but if you attend Appalachian some doors will be closed. You are not going to be hired as a Supreme Court Law Clerk or by Cravath. You can find a job as a City Attorney, in Family Law, as D.A., personal injury, maybe some business formation etc, but some doors will be closed. I am assuming you know that, but perhaps you don't I do remember at my law school numerous 1L's were baffled that the U.N. was not interviewing on campus for people draft treaties, firms that pay 160,000+ to first year associaties were not kicking the door for career services down, etc.

If you attend Applachian you will likely graduate in the middle of the class. I imagine at the end of your first year you will work for as an intern for some government office, perhaps extern for a judge, or work for a small firm lawyer. In your first year these will likely be unpaid internships and then for your second year again you will probably intern somewhere during the school year, but since it is in Grundy, Virginia there might literally be nothing around so perhaps not. Your 2L Summer maybe you can make $15-20 an hour and that is if your lucky. Your 3L again I don't know the economic climate of Grundy, Virginia so perhaps no opportunities exist there during the school year. Then you will take the bar exam and there is probably a 40% chance you will fail first time around based on the school's numbers. There is a 60% chance you will pass and if you pass you will probably spend 2-3 months looking for a job maybe more maybe less and your first job out of law school will range between 40-60k. After a year or two of experience the numbers will move up to 60-70k assuming you succeed in your first few years. Then after a few years you may get a lot of clients, a reputation, etc and you may succeed or people may think your no good.

So there is no way to say how it will turn out I would say the assessment of the law school experience is accurate, but once your out in the real world assuming you pass the bar you can succeed as a lawyer from Appalachian, but there will be some doors will be closed to you, but many of these same doors will be closed if you transfer to the 83rd best school as well or Appalachian.

Conclusion:

In your above post you said you want to be a lawyer and that is good there is only one way to become one and that is by going to law school. It is a large time and financial commitment with no guarantee of success and coming from Appalachian will make success difficult, but it can still be done.  If you are ready for the challenge and truly want to be a lawyer then go to Appalachian, but if you think law school is your Golden Ticket to success it is far from it.

You know better than anyone else what you truly want and whether you attend law school is a life altering decision so contact people with direct experience from the school and remember take everything you read from anonymous internet posters with a major grain of salt. Whether you attend law school or not there will be obstacles, but if this is what you really want I encourage you to go for it. Good luck whatever you decide.

194
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law?
« on: February 26, 2013, 12:54:48 AM »
Although I am all for lawschooltrasnparency and their mission realize it is far from an accurate picture. This information is based on reports from 39% of students so that mean's over half the sample size is missing. I can tell you I graduated, passed the bar, and got a job. I never ended up reporting my employment and many people simply do not take the time to fill out a survey, or release their financial information, etc. Therefore I was a no-report despite working as a lawyer.

Furthermore, I posted this exact thing on another thread:

Copy/Paste from other thread


Realize that law school is the only profession I know of that is required to report employment information on an easy to access database. I would love to see the employment numbers for recent college graduates I am sure it is far worse than law schools. There is no centralized database for medical grads, MBA grads, accounting grads, or undergrads that I am aware of. At the very least law reports statistics and as far I know not one other profession does that.  If you know of a site that reports universal job statistics and everyone is reporting 90% employment making 80-100k from CPA school then I guess that is the route, but plenty of people struggle to find jobs in every profession as evidenced by my two second Google search.

A pessimist accountant saying in your first year you will make only 45-50k if your lucky. http://www.city-data.com/forum/work-employment/1004020-think-twice-before-you-get-accounting.html

Another thread of desperate accountants submitting endless resumes without finding a job. http://www.another71.com/cpa-exam-forum/topic/passed-all-exams-on-first-attempt-still-cant-find-a-job



A whole article explaining why an MBA is a waste of money. http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/04/pf/jobs/business_school_waste.fortune/index.htm

Another article explaining why an MBA is a waste of money http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/04/pf/jobs/business_school_waste.fortune/index.htm

Another thread of a guy with an MBA posting for a job http://www.indeed.com/forum/loc/Chicago-Illinois/MBA-graduate-can-t-get-job/t303546

Maybe being a cop is easy?
Oh nope http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/09/more_than_700_nj_police_office.html

another thread of people looking for law enforcement jobs http://policelink.monster.com/topics/83557-cant-find-a-law-enforcement-job/posts

How about just a plain old Bachelor's everyone must be hiring people with a B.A. or B.S. right? Uh no.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57434159/half-of-college-grads-cant-find-full-time-jobs/

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/college-grads-cant-find-work-1b7vkvg-183086941.html

I could go on and on, but the reality is starting a career is difficult and nobody likes looking for work. I don't know if your still in college or attending law school, but you can see there is no easy route that I can find. At the end of the day people can complain on the internet about finding a job or get it done. Personally when I was waiting for bar results I was rejected by over 400 employers it was depressing, but I did have a few interviews and thankfully one came through once results were released, but it was not easy. It will not be easy no matter what profession you choose that is my point.

However, if you know of some golden ticket where everyone is getting hired, you don't have to pay any tuition, and you are paid exorbitantly please let everyone me know as well as everyone else on this board I would honestly love to know about it.

Conclusion:
OP Thomas Jefferson is not going to result in anything being handed to you, but every other profession will present it's own obstacle unless Anti09 knows of the Golden Ticket profession that I have been trying to find for over 30 years. If being a lawyer is what you want to be then go for it. There is a higher likelihood that you may not pass the bar attending TJSL your numbers are likely lower than others and this means you are not a good standardized taker. Standardized test taking makes no difference in your career as a lawyer, but your ability to take standardized test does make a difference on the bar and you cannot be a lawyer until you pass that exam.

There are plenty of TJSL grads and people from lower ranked schools that pass, but it is likely going to be more difficult for you to pass the bar than someone from Harvard. Furthermore, people from Harvard will have an edge on you in the legal job market and for that matter in any profession as Harvard has an MBA school, an accounting school, etc. If you want to be a lawyer and you know what it entails I encourage you to go for it. I knew what I was getting into when I enrolled and I love being a lawyer. I have numerous classmates that hated their experience and others that love their jobs more than I do. It is a gamble, but nothing is certain life and if being a lawyer is what you really want there is only way to become one and that is going to law school.

Good luck to you.

195
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Too Many Good Choices
« on: February 25, 2013, 11:49:26 PM »
Yes most people do not find jobs right out of law school or any profession starting in any career is a struggle. Most lawyers find jobs if they pass the bar many schools even top schools have 70% bar passage rates that means 30% of the class simply cannot work as lawyer, still more are rich and have no desire to practice law, the possibilities are endless.

Is any law school a guarantee absolutely not, but education whether it be law, accounting, medicine, etc is a long-term investment. Lawyers with 10 years of experience make a substantial amount of money many people who work in huge firms making 140-160k right out of law school burn out, others struggle to find the first job, it is endless. My overall point on this board is that if you want to be a lawyer then go to law school, but yes there are risks there is no guarantee anything will work out. However, the same thing applies in any profession if you want to work at McDonald's making minimum wage you can get that job, but if you want to be a Cop, Firefighter, Lawyer, Doctor, salesman, etc there will be stiff competition and law is no different.

Realize that law school is the only profession I know of that is required to report employment information on an easy to access database. I would love to see the employment numbers for recent college graduates I am sure it is far worse than law schools. There is no centralized database for medical grads, MBA grads, accounting grads, or undergrads that I am aware of. At the very least law reports statistics and as far I know not one other profession does that.  If you know of a site that reports universal job statistics and everyone is reporting 90% employment making 80-100k from CPA school then I guess that is the route, but plenty of people struggle to find jobs in every profession as evidenced by my two second Google search.

A pessimist accountant saying in your first year you will make only 45-50k if your lucky. http://www.city-data.com/forum/work-employment/1004020-think-twice-before-you-get-accounting.html

Another thread of desperate accountants submitting endless resumes without finding a job. http://www.another71.com/cpa-exam-forum/topic/passed-all-exams-on-first-attempt-still-cant-find-a-job



A whole article explaining why an MBA is a waste of money. http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/04/pf/jobs/business_school_waste.fortune/index.htm

Another article explaining why an MBA is a waste of money http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/04/pf/jobs/business_school_waste.fortune/index.htm

Another thread of a guy with an MBA posting for a job http://www.indeed.com/forum/loc/Chicago-Illinois/MBA-graduate-can-t-get-job/t303546

Maybe being a cop is easy?
Oh nope http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/09/more_than_700_nj_police_office.html

another thread of people looking for law enforcement jobs http://policelink.monster.com/topics/83557-cant-find-a-law-enforcement-job/posts

How about just a plain old Bachelor's everyone must be hiring people with a B.A. or B.S. right? Uh no.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57434159/half-of-college-grads-cant-find-full-time-jobs/

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/college-grads-cant-find-work-1b7vkvg-183086941.html

I could go on and on, but the reality is starting a career is difficult and nobody likes looking for work. I don't know if your still in college or attending law school, but you can see there is no easy route that I can find. At the end of the day people can complain on the internet about finding a job or get it done. Personally when I was waiting for bar results I was rejected by over 400 employers it was depressing, but I did have a few interviews and thankfully one came through once results were released, but it was not easy. It will not be easy no matter what profession you choose that is my point.

However, if you know of some golden ticket where everyone is getting hired, you don't have to pay any tuition, and you are paid exorbitantly please let everyone me know as well as everyone else on this board I would honestly love to know about it.

196
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Too Many Good Choices
« on: February 25, 2013, 07:35:45 PM »
Ok again the survey you produced shows a total of 18% of reported salaries for lawyers then means 82% are unaccounted for. This does not necessarily mean they are unemployed either as I have detailed my own experience I am a working attorney and I simply never bothered to fill out the survey detailing all my personal financial information to my school. Most people just move on from their school start working, hang out with their friends, girlfriends, etc the survey is voluntary to fill out and as displayed only 18% of people reported.

Furthermore, of the 18% that reported the mean salary was 78,000 in 2011, which was the worst year for legal employment. In 2009 the mean was 93,000, but again this is based on only 30% of people reporting. These numbers are highly inaccurate because they are based on little information. Furthermore, lawyers are paid by their abilities and it can range 0 to well over 100,000 and it just depends on each person these statistics mean very, very, little.

197
Transferring / Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
« on: February 25, 2013, 07:28:39 PM »
http://www.lmu.edu/about/services/controller/osfs/studentaccounts/fees/2012_2013_Academic_Year/graduate.htm?
MBA & Accounting tuition

MBA $1,184 per unit

J.D. Per credit hour    $1,560.00 http://www.lmu.edu/about/services/controller/osfs/studentaccounts/fees/2012_2013_Academic_Year/Law_School_Tuition_2012_2013.htm?

J.D. is slightly more, but an MBA is not cheap by any means this is the same school mind. A few thousand more for a law license, but you have a specialty opposed to an MBA which anyone can practice not anyone can practice law. It is cheaper to get an MBA yes, but not my much and as my article provides there are plenty of criticisms regarding an MBA.

I am only googling this in between breaks so I can't find the tuition for accounting at LMU, but I am it is a $1,000+ a credit just as a law degree or MBA is. Yea MBA is only two years and people can work while obtaining them, but people can go to law school part time work or work full time years 2 & 3 there is nothing stopping anyone from doing that. 

As for one job paying 28,000 what does that prove? I am sure there are plenty of job postings for licensed lawyers offering a 100,000+ and others that are seeking licensed lawyers to work as unpaid law clerks. Some job posting doesn't prove anything there are crappy and awesome jobs in every industry and one craigslist posting in some random location is not indicative of an entire industry . 

Here is SF Craigslist for lawyers http://sfbay.craigslist.org/lgl/ accountants http://sfbay.craigslist.org/acc/ and business http://sfbay.craigslist.org/bus/ I guarantee you in the three days of postings in these jobs you will find awesome ones, crappy ones, and ok ones. You could do this nationwide and there will be unpaid jobs, low salary jobs, high salary jobs, etc.

Technically an MBA is a lower risk financially it is slightly less money and a two year commitment, but the market for MBA"s is certainly not any better than a lawyer. You are still out thousands of dollars and two years of your life and there is no guarantee. However, if OP wants to be a businessman he should get an MBA if he wants to be a lawyer get a J.D. There is only one way to be a lawyer and that is going to law school.

OP's LSAT is lower than most people in law school, but what does that mean? In court I have never brought up my LSAT score and when I am representing clients in front of a judge, jury, etc the last thing anybody cares about is what I scored on some standardized admissions test years ago it simply doesn't matter. I passed the bar I am a lawyer and whether I or any other licensed lawyer succeeds is up to us the LSAT gets you in the door and after day 1 of law school it means jack. In my school there was one guy who talked about how great of an LSAT score he got and that is all he talked about and he failed out. I was below the median at my school, but I finished in the top 10% of my class it means very little other than getting you in the door.

That is my two cents and you are entitled to yours I encourage anyone that really wants to be a lawyer to go to law school. If OP wants that he should attend Appalachian, but as I think both you and I agree Appalachian is not going to result in having employers knocking down your door, but neither is any other school except maybe Harvard, Yale, or Stanford. However, Harvard, Yale, Stanford also have MBA, Accounting, and other schools and the same logic applies there.

Again I am not trying to paint a rosy picture of law school it is hard, expensive, and time consuming. The system could be changed in some ways and I believe there is a push to take the bar in your 2L and then have a license for 3L to work on developing practical skills, which I am all for. Reforms can be made, but like all systems I am aware of it is far from perfect and many of your points are valid. However, just because law school is not a perfect system does not mean someone should avoid it, because whatever other profession they are seeking to enter into will have it's own problems.




198
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law?
« on: February 25, 2013, 05:31:29 PM »
I got it from LSAC http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/publications/2012og/aba4973.pdf , but definitely call the school directly as that is a difference of 20,000 over one year and 60,000 over three.  I am in the Bay Area, but once you pass the California Bar you are licensed in every city in California and it being such a massive state covering towns like San Diego, L.A, San Jose, San Francisco, Sacramento to name a few you will be licensed in all of them if you pass the California Bar.

No problem happy to give some advice I know there is a lot of negativity on these boards, but you have to ask yourself what kind of person spends hours on anonymous posting on the internet to complain how unfair everything is? That is not the type of person I want to hang out with and I am a big believer in accountability I choose to go to law school no gun to my head and there were flaws in the system just like everything else, but I am glad I went. There are many others who hated their experience and the reality is whether you fail or succeed will be much more dependent on you than anything TJSL or other schools do. 

Remember all a law school owes you is a ticket to take the bar exam and any accredited law school will give you that opportunity. Whether you pass the bar or fail will be pretty much dependent on you and whether you find a job again will be on you. These are difficult tasks and TJSL is not going to impress anybody, but plenty of people from every ABA school nationwide do succeed however it is not easy. 100% of people on the first day of law school think they will graduate in the top 10% and they are special and will find a job at graduation no problem. 90% of people don't finish in the top 10% of the class and plenty of people struggle to find jobs. It is hard I will not sugarcoat and it is not always fair, but if being a lawyer is what you want then I encourage you to go for it, but be prepared for a challenge.

199
Transferring / Re: Admitted to Appalachian but I want to go to Uconn
« on: February 25, 2013, 04:54:17 PM »
First law school is not that easy to get into? It is easier than medical school you need a bachelor's degree, which only about 30% of American's have and globally that number is far lower. Then you need to get basically a 145 to get into Appalachian or Cooley two of the easier to get into schools in America, but even to do that you need to be in the top half or higher of LSAT takers. You state 30,000 people did better than OP on the LSAT, but there were 130,000 test takers http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/lsats-administered.asp therefore he did better than 100,000 people who have bachelor's degrees, which is quite good.

What I don't think most law students realize is that if you attend law school you are good at school. I played sports in college and know many people are not capable of pulling a 2.0 to any law student that seems like a joke and I got a 3.3 drinking, partying, and putting in minimal effort in college, but school simply was easy for me. It is not simply work ethic either I played basketball in College I could probably work 100x harder than every NBA player right now and not be anywhere near their level. I remember watching a documentary of Allen Iverson saying he never lifted a weight in his life yet he was an NBA All-Star somethings just come naturally to people. So getting into law school and scoring well enough to get into any ABA school is an accomplishment in my opinion.

LAW SCHOOL A WASTE?
Do some people was their law school experience? Yes. There is no mandatory requirement to take the hardest courses, bust your ass to find a paying internship, etc. Plenty of people I went to law school with routinely missed class, took easy courses, and were rarely involved with anything. Yes the third year of law school was a complete waste for these people, but any educational experience is what you make of it.

During my Third year I was on a journal, I took numerous writing classes so I would have good writing samples at graduation, I participated in two mock trial competitions, and got an internship (paid) that lead to my first job out of law school.

My classmates had the same opportunities to do what I did others did not. Undergrad or any other school is no different. In college I knew plenty of people that smoked pot all day, missed class, got a 2.0, and did jack over their 4 years in college. I could have done more in college personally, but I played basketball, made friends, held several jobs, was in school politics, etc. I got a scholarship for basketball, but my stoner dorm mates had the same opportunities I had , but they never utilized them.

My point is law school is no different than any other form of school you make it a worthwhile experience or not. If you want to sit in the back of the class, take Yoga for lawyers 3L, or some other fluff thing nobody is stopping you just as nobody is stopping you from taking the difficult courses, befriending professors, participating in moot court or mock trial. The choice is yours no matter what school you attend.

COST OF LAW SCHOOL
Some schools are expensive, but not all of them Florida International, CUNY, Florida, Florida, State, South Dakota, North Dakota, all offer very cheap in-state tuition. Southwestern law school has a program where you can graduate in two years and plenty of other schools if you push for it will let you graduate in two years, but again you have get it done nobody is going to hand you anything.

MBA/Pharmacy/CPA

News Article saying an MBA is a waste of time & money. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEUQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbsnews.com%2F8301-505125_162-45040152%2Fwhy-an-mba-is-a-waste-of-time-and-money%2F&ei=6torUcfnC4rEiwLInIHYCQ&usg=AFQjCNHfUJJJyo_LSL0H-I91JLSw1gA1Mw&bvm=bv.42965579,d.cGE

A CPA who can't find a job http://www.cpanet.com/cpa_forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37159

Pharmacists can't find a job https://www.google.com/search?q=Pharmaticists+can%27t+find+a+job+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=TE7&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=Pharmacists+can%27t+find+a+job&spell=1&sa=X&ei=NNsrUajBM6e9iwK_-ICQAw&ved=0CC8QvwUoAA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42965579,d.cGE&fp=44bd0b80c492aca7&biw=1366&bih=638

Conclusion:
This world is difficult there is no golden ticket whether OP wants to be a lawyer, pharmacist, MBA, there will be a million things he/she could bi**h and moan about. We are very foruntate to live in America we have an abundance of opportunities and many of us myself and yourself included were fortunate enough to receive graduate degrees. Where I came from attending a public school in L.A. all anybody was a chance to go to a college any college, but many were not lucky enough to do it I was good enough at basketball to get out and made it to law school etc, but a lot of people had it easier than me, but literally billions more people around the world had it harder.

If OP is someone who is going to complain that they went to law school and were in top of their class so somebody owes them something and how unfair everything is then he/she should not go to law school any law school. If he/she is willing to bust their ass, handle rejection, and sincerely wants to be a lawyer then they should go for it whether it be Appalachian or somewhere else.

I am not trying to paint a rosy picture of law school either it is hard, it is expensive, and there are no guarantees. However, there is no guarantee elsewhere MBA school is expensive. Pharmacy school is expensive 51k for tuition http://www.pacific.edu/Admission/Graduate-Professional/Pharmacy/Pharm-DTuition-and-Fees.html  and it is three years long. I could go on and on with examples and the bottom line is no matter what profession you are in there will be people who complain how unfair it is.

To OP if you really want to be a lawyer and you think Grundy, Virginia will be a good fit I encourage you to do it. If you are not truly sure what you want to do with your life hold back it is a 3 year 100,000+ commitment and if your not ready for that do not attend law school. You know far better what you want than any anonymous internet poster on this board or others so really look deep down in yourself and ask what you want. If being a lawyer is the choice you want then go for it and feel free to personal message me with any questions you might have.

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Where should I go next fall? / Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law?
« on: February 25, 2013, 04:24:33 PM »
First off realize that anything you read on this board or other comes from anonymous internet posters who have no repercussions for being completely wrong, making things up, etc. There is no qualifications to post on this board, top law schools, or others for all you know I could be one of the greatest lawyers in the world or a bum in a public library. Bottom line taking any advice from anonymous internet posters myself included with a major grain of salt.

With that introduction I can tell you that I have never been to Thomas Jefferson Law, but I am a lawyer in California. I can tell you I have seen good and bad lawyers from every law school Thomas Jefferson included. Thomas Jefferson does have significant issues with bar passage, but having taken the California Bar I really think bar passage is far more up to the individual than the school, but TJLS numbers are significantly lower than other schools. I do not know what to make of that, but it should be of some concern as they had 33% and 52% bar passage rates in the last 2 years. Again whether you pass the bar is much more up to the individual than the school, but those are significantly lower numbers than other schools.

Now with that said there are some major Pros to TJSL. I noticed they recently reduced their tuition to 19,000 a year, which is about half the price of every other California Law School. Furthermore, TJSL is in San Diego where there are simply not many other law schools, which means less competition.

One other thing to realize about legal education is that it is all the same. Whether you attend Davis, Hastings, University of San Diego, Thomas Jefferson, California Western, etc your first year will consist of Torts, Property, Contracts, Civil Procedure. etc and you will read Supreme Court Cases. The United States Supreme Court does not spend time writing seperate opinions for different law schools and no matter what school you attend you will read Palsgraf in torts to learn proximate cause, Pennoyer v. Neff to in Civ Pro to learn about notice. So there really isn't much difference between law schools they teach you the same exact thing. You will take the bar exam and hopefully you will pass if you do you will have a law license and whether you succeed as a lawyer will be far more dependent on you than any law school name on your diploma.

Now is anyone going to be impressed by TJSL? No certainly it would be better to go to Stanford the road to succeeding as a lawyer would be easier, but plenty of people do succeed from TJSL while many others do not. It will be an uphill battle, but people have overcome a lot worse things than not going to Harvard for Law School. There were attorneys who got licensed during segregation and overcame numerous obstacles, people around the world are starving and fighting for survival every day. People that complain that they cannot get a job, because they didn't get into Stanford are the epitome of first world problems, but if you someone that expects things to be handed to you then do not attend TJSL or any law school for that matter. If your prepared to work your ass off, overcome obstacles, and get sh** done then I encourage you to go for it, but it will not be easy.

Good luck to you whatever you decide.

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