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Messages - livinglegend

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121
Personal Statement / Re: Seeking some honest feedback
« on: June 06, 2013, 07:35:12 PM »
Maintain is correct especially since you want to attend a school like Rutgers or Seton Hall it is all numbers. Obviously draft a competent personal statement, but they are looking through 4,000 or more applications and people on an admission committee are humans unless you have some extraordinary story such as being an NBA basketball player, Navy Seal, or something else that really jumps off the page your personal statement won't be that big of a deal.

Go to lawschoolnumbers.com and you will see how much of a numbers game law school admission is. The reason for this is these admissions committees are reading 4,000+ personal statements most of them saying I want to go to law school because I worked in a law firm, or I am seeking a challenge, etc, etc. These are all fine statements, but 99% of people do not have a story that will catch an admissions committee's attention.

If you really want to go get into a "higher school" although I believe that is a bad distinction then you are much better of spending time studying for the LSAT opposed to working on a personal statement.

122
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Can any transfers help me??
« on: June 04, 2013, 12:59:29 AM »
I think everyone above gives you advice and one of your last concerns about choosing a law school should how they rank percentages for the purpose of transferring. The main reason being to transfer you need to generally be in the top 20% of your class and there is an 80% chance you will not be in the top 20% no matter where you go.

On top of that first year of law school is a life changing event and many people do not transfer and very few people end up transferring. It could happen, but Fordham had 479 first year students last year and only 14 transferred out that is about 2%, which are what your odds of transferring will be most likely.  Bottom line do not attend a law school you will not be happy graduating from.

123
Where should I go next fall? / Re: NYLS or Retake??
« on: June 04, 2013, 12:54:00 AM »
I am copying what I said on another thread regarding the flaws of placement statistics.

Law school transparency and employment statistics are not a great indicator of anything. Although I am all for law school transparency and their mission the reality is that tracking each student is impossible especially since it is not mandatory. If look on law school transparencies website typically the vast majority of students are unreported. This does not mean they are unemployed I know that when I graduated, passed the bar, and got a job I never reported. It was nothing personal I just didn't get around to it the same way I didn't get around to mailing a birthday card to a friend or some other inconsequential thing that occurs.

Bottom line is it doesn't hurt to look at the stats, but realize these come nowhere near painting an accurate picture of what the outcome of your law school career will be. There are Harvard grads that never passed the bar and Cooley grads who are doing quite well for themselves.

On top of that realize that each person is unique and has their own life circumstances for example several people in class got pregnant right after graduation they were married etc and dealt with 9 months of pregnancy opposed to 9 months of job searching. You cannot assume everyone graduates law school at 25 and is looking to go straight into working. On top of that by the time bar results get released it is 7 months after graduation at least in California and they are released a week before Thanksgiving and the majority of law firms do not hire anyone during the holidays.

I can tell you my law school has a law school transparency placement rate of about 50%, but almost everyone I know from my class is employed as an attorney now. I will admit I do not know everyone, but I surrounded myself with somewhat competent people and most of them did quite well. I also know there are several people who did not find jobs, but it had a lot more to do with them than school on their diploma. For example one of my friend's got hired as a D.A., but he failed his drug test and his offer was rescinded and it turns out he has a cocaine problem that is his own deal not the school's again that just shows the individuality of each person and why these law school stats are so flawed.

With that info use your common sense NYLS is not Columbia or Harvard, but it will teach you the law and you can have a successful legal career, but make sure it is the right fit for you. For the same reasons the employment statistics are flawed since they are highly individual your satisfaction with your law school decision will depend heavily on what is important to you so visit the school, make sure NY is what you want, talk to alumni, professors, etc and see if the school fits your personality.

Good luck whatever you decide.

124
Law school transparency and employment statistics are not a great indicator of anything. Although I am all for law school transparency and their mission the reality is that tracking each student is impossible especially since it is not mandatory. If look on law school transparencies website typically the vast majority of students are unreported. This does not mean they are unemployed I know that when I graduated, passed the bar, and got a job I never reported. It was nothing personal I just didn't get around to it the same way I didn't get around to mailing a birthday card to a friend or some other inconsequential thing that occurs.

Bottom line is it doesn't hurt to look at the stats, but realize these come nowhere near painting an accurate picture of what the outcome of your law school career will be. There are Harvard grads that never passed the bar and Cooley grads who are doing quite well for themselves.

On top of that realize that each person is unique and has their own life circumstances for example several people in class got pregnant right after graduation they were married etc and dealt with 9 months of pregnancy opposed to 9 months of job searching. You cannot assume everyone graduates law school at 25 and is looking to go straight into working. On top of that by the time bar results get released it is 7 months after graduation at least in California and they are released a week before Thanksgiving and the majority of law firms do not hire anyone during the holidays.

I can tell you my law school has a law school transparency placement rate of about 50%, but almost everyone I know from my class is employed as an attorney now. I will admit I do not know everyone, but I surrounded myself with somewhat competent people and most of them did quite well. I also know there are several people who did not find jobs, but it had a lot more to do with them than school on their diploma. For example one of my friend's got hired as a D.A., but he failed his drug test and his offer was rescinded and it turns out he has a cocaine problem that is his own deal not the school's again that just shows the individuality of each person and why these law school stats are so flawed.

Again they are worth browsing, but you should not make the life altering decision of what law school to attend based on some statistics that are flawed.

125
I have read many of your posts and agree with what you have had to say so I am going to go deep into my pockets and spend the $2.99 on your new book. Hopefully you will start posting on this site again as well.

126
Acceptances / Re: Nebraska Law or Denver/Sturm Law?
« on: May 30, 2013, 11:05:36 PM »
First please please do not take the rankings seriously on top of that just because one person had a bad experience at a law school does not mean everyone did. I am an attorney and can tell you there are successful grads from all level of law schools and there are people from Harvard that never pass the bar.

Remember U.S. News is a for-profit unregulated magazine and the rankings change drastically year to year. University of San Francisco was top 100 last year and now they are 145 what happened at the school over one year? Nothing I guarantee you and I worked alongside several people who attended USF, Golden Gate, Santa Clara, Hastings, Davis, etc and the name of our school never comes up getting our job done does.

As to your question where do you want to live Nebraska or Denver? If you want to live in Nebraska then Nebraska will be a good fit and if you want to live in Denver that will serve your purpose. If you do not want to live in Denver or Nebraska do not go to school to either of those places.

I was a OL once and like you took the rankings far to seriously, but now realize what absolute B.S. they are. It is a magazine nothing more who has ranked Albuquerque, New Mexico as the best place to live. http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/real-estate/articles/2009/06/08/best-places-to-live-2009 Will you move to Albuquerque, because U.S. News says it is #1 probably not same logic applies to law school.

I will also tell you what you learn at an ABA law school is exactly the same you will take torts, contracts, civil procedure, property, and you will read Supreme Court Decisions and believe it or not they do not write seperate opinions for Harvard v. Dayton it is the same you will then graduate and take Barbri or Kaplan to pass the bar and if you pass your an attorney. There is no Tier 4 law school license they are all the same.

I see a lot of the mistakes I made as a OL in your post so I apologize for my rambling, but just use common sense when choosing your school and do not use U.S. News as the main factor for your decision especially when dealing with schools of this caliber. If it were Harvard or somethign it would matter, but I guarantee you nobody knows what these schools are ranked.

127
Where should I go next fall? / Re: NYLS or Retake??
« on: May 30, 2013, 10:47:50 PM »
This is a complicated decision and I am an attorney, but take anything I say with a grain of salt along with anything else you read on anonymous internet poster boards. With that said I would like to make a few points.

1) First your 149 LSAT you say you took a course, but were not as dedicated as you could have been. I will tell you that almost every LSAT taker thinks they could have done better and were somewhat disappointed with their score after all 90% of people that take the test do not finish in the top 10%. I don't know how seriously you took the test, but even a 149 is tough that puts in the 50th percentile of LSAT takers and that is from a pool of college graduates that were motivated enough to take the LSAT. A 149 is not going to get you into Harvard, but it is good enough to get you into an ABA school, which is an accomplishment. 

If you went to the courses did what you were supposed to do etc and 149 is what you got that is probably what you will get next time around. Or maybe you just didn't stay focused enough, but will you be focused enough the next time around? I think all of us when we join a gym say we will go everyday, but that doesn't happen. I am sure you are telling yourself if you study for the LSAT again you will dedicate yourself and take a practice test everyday, etc but the reality is you probably will put in about the same effort you did previously.

2) Sitting out a year is a big decision realistically if you have been working in a legal environment and enjoy it and have a law school admission ticket you might want to go to school now. Life has a way of getting in the way and if you wait for a year of law school what is going to stop you from waiting again next year. Or perhaps you will get into a relationship, have a family issue, etc and I think if you wait for everything to be perfect you will never get anything done, but that is just me.

3) I also want to point out to you the fallacies of law school rankings etc. I can tell you the education at Rutgers is no different than NYLS, CUNY, Brooklyn Law, etc your first year will consist of Torts, Contracts, Property, Criminal Law, Civil Procedure and you will read Supreme Court cases from a textbook written by Epstein whether you are at Harvard or Touro. Then you will graduate and take Barbri or Kaplan once you graduate and pass the bar your a lawyer period.

Remember that U.S. News is nothing, but a for-profit unregualted magazine offering an opinion and do not make life altering decisions based on it. I can tell you I worked for a government agency in New York and there were lawyers from NYLS, CUNY, Columbia, Penn, Yale, Harvard, etc all working side by side a lawyer is a lawyer. I cannot tell you how many 0L's myself included as a 0L take that magazine way to seriously.

On top of that you mention Rutgers as a better option than NYLS I can tell you nobody cares about whatever difference there is between Rutgers and NYLS I have no idea what there rankings are, but I know they are both well outside of the top 25 and nobody says Rutgers here is a job. If it were Harvard, Yale, or something like that it might make a difference, but nobody cares about the difference between T2-T3 schools particularly in a market like New York.

4) Transferring DO NOT GO TO LAW EXPECTING TO TRANSFER. To transfer you essentially need to be in the top 20% of the class at a minimum and no knock on you, but there is an 80% chance you will not be in the top 20%. Everyone at an ABA law school is smart, hard-working, and motivated and 100% of people on the first day are certain they will be in the top 10%, but you don't need to be a math major to see 90% of people will be wrong.

5) 15k a year scholarship at NYLS there is a 50% chance you will lose that scholarship as an FYI for the reasons mentioned above nobody on the first day of law school could fathom they would be in the bottom 50% of the class, but 50% of the students at every law school finish in the bottom half so be prepared to lose that.

6) I would also add you should look into CUNY they offer in-state tuition at only 10k a year or so, which would be cheaper than NYLS even with a 15k a year scholarship that you could lose years 2 and 3. Just an FYI.

7) I also strongly encourage you to visit any school you are interested and see how you feel about it. I used to work right by NYLS and I didn't like the vibe of it, but that doesn't mean you won't I know plenty of people that enjoyed their experience there and law school is a highly personal decision so visit NYLS and WNEC and see how you feel about the school.

8) Finally just go into law school with the appropriate expectations I think many people go into law school for the wrong reasons and with ridiculous expectations. You are working in a legal environment and it sound like you enjoy it and are seeing what lawyers do first hand, which is important to understand. Many people belive you graduate law school and automatically get handed a 6 figure job, which is just not true.

NYLS, WNEC, CUNY or many schools will give you a legal education and get you a law license what you do with it will be up to you. As far as retaking if you sincerley think things will be different then I guess go for it, but generally people do not improve that much and you will lose a year of your career as a lawyer. I knew many people that kept waiting for a better LSAT or better acceptances etc, but they never ended up going. I know one girl that kept retaking the LSAT for 5 years I graduated and passed the bar and she was still trying to get a higher score and as far I know she never went to law school.

If I was you, which I am not I would go for it if you really want to be a lawyer, but you know your personal situation and ability to improve far better than I or anyone else on posting anonymous on the internet.

Good luck to you whatever you decide.


128
Where should I go next fall? / Re: Barry or Coastal?
« on: May 30, 2013, 01:43:25 AM »
As I mentioned before take all anonymous internet poster advice with a grain of salt mine included.

With that said I think you really need to listen to your gut when choosing a law school and if Barry struck you as a place you wanted to be listen to your gut. Many 0L's try to make the law school decision much more complicated than it needs to be I know I did when I was a 0L thinking there was something I was missing and some right answer I would be pointed to, but it really isn't that complicated.

At any ABA law school Barry, Coastal, Harvard, Stanford, etc you will learn the law your 1L will consist of Torts, Contracts, Property, Civil Procedure, and you will read Supreme Court cases like Palsgraf in Torts to learn proximate cause, Pennoyer v. Neff in Civ Pro to learn about notice so on and so forth. What really makes a difference in your educational experience is the location of the school and the culture of the school and whether it is a fit for you or not.

If you have visited both schools and Barry felt right then Barry is probably the right fit. As for the T4 bashing take it with a grain of salt what law school boils down to is your expectations and I imagine you have the common sense to realize that if you attend these schools you will probably not be sitting on the Supreme Court or end up as a Partner at Cravath. However, you can be employed as an attorney, which can be a very rewarding career.

I can tell you I did not attend Harvard or a Top 25 school, but I graduated, passed the bar, and work as a City Attorney and I love it. I do occasionally work with the Attorney General and Harvard Grads who frankly are smarter than me, but I play a role in it and if you know what you are getting into with these schools it can be great experience.

The internet bashing comes from people who impose their expectations on others when I went to law school I had no ambition of being a big law partner or Supreme Court Justice and frankly I don't think I am smart enough to do it. Same as when I got a scholarship to a division II school for basketball I knew I was not going to the NBA and Lebron James would have laughed at a D II scholarship, but I am not Lebron James. However, I enjoyed my college B-Ball experience and could have played in European leagues etc not the NBA though.

I am kind of rambling, but I just want you to go into law school with the appropriate expectations, which is where I think all the confusion about T4's and law school in general comes up. As for the actual question if you liked Barry then go to Barry good luck.

129
Law School Applications / Re: Chances of Acceptance?
« on: May 30, 2013, 01:31:49 AM »
I recommend you use lawschoolnumbers.com it is probably the best site for this type of question. I am guessing South Texas College of Law, Texas Wesleyan, or St. Mary's would be your best bet.

130
Well remember Giove to take anything you read on these forums with a major grain of salt my posts included. Anonymous internet advice is the easiest to obtain, but the least reliable form of information as anyone can post anything they want without repercussion.

If you want to attend law school speak to real life attorneys, visit schools you are interested in, etc and see first hand what the situation is and if it works for you.

I do a lot of ridiculous statements on boards like top law schools by people just bashing on school after school, but you have to question the credibility of people who spend all day on the internet attacking people anonymously.


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