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Messages - livinglegend

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101
Law School Admissions / Re: Good enough soft factor?
« on: June 07, 2013, 09:37:21 PM »
Having a successful business is a solid soft factor, but law school admissions are highly geared on numbers. If you started a multi-million dollar company that is something that would catch the eye of an admissions committee, but again check out lawschoolnumbers.com and you will just how much of a numbers game law school admissions is.

There are also no ABA two year programs law school needs to be three or more years. Southwestern law school in L.A. might have some specialty program and with your numbers you could probably get in there. You also probably will not be able to manage this large of a business and get through law school. I knew many people in law school that tried the part-time program and had just 9-5 jobs and failed out. They were not dumb, but law school is very time intensive probably more so than any other form of education.

I have to ask what your motivation for law school is as well. I loved law school, but I do not know how you could manage 30 employees and an entire company while learning the intricacies of interpleader or the rule against perpetuities. Feel free to prove me wrong, but I think you either have to choose law school or your business.

Good luck with your decision.

102
First you have to be honest yourself getting a 165 or 170 is unlikely. That puts you in the top 10% of test takers and people that take the LSAT in the first place are college graduates who are motivated enough to attend law school, which puts you in about the top 1-2% of people and 98% of us myself included did not get a 165-170 on their LSAT.

On top of that if you got a 149 on your diagnostic it probably means you won't score that high. With that said you if you show up and take the test you can likely get into an ABA law school and I will tell you only 5% of lawyers nationwide attended top 10 schools. There are 200 ABA law schools and only 10 in the top 10. This means 95% of lawyers nationwide did not attend Harvard, Yale, Stanford etc. I myself didn't, but am a lawyer and love my job. I also work with many other lawyers most of whom did not attend top 10 schools a few Berkley grads, but we are all licensed by the state bar to practice law and work in the same office.

On top of that what is really going to change in a few months? You have been prepping with Kaplan for months if you were saying you hadn't done anything to prepare then you should probably wait, but it sounds like you have been studying. In a few months you will feel the same panic and being unprepared. When you go to law school you will completely unprepared for finals every time and then when teh bar comes my god you will feel unprepared. Then when your a lawyer you will never feel fully prepared for a trial and that feeling of not being 100% ready is part of being a lawyer.

With that said it is your decision, but I am willing to bet if you wait until the October test this same feeling will come up. If you have taken courses and put in a good faith effort take your test and get a score then know your options. Also do not be disappointed if you don't get a 170 almost nobody does.

You will also need to be prepared for that realization when you attend law school in the same way only 10% of test takers can score 170 only 10% of any law school class can graduate in the top 10%, but on your first day 100% of law students who are the same people you are competing with on the LSAT are smart, motivate, and hard working and truly believe they will be in the top 10%, but 90% of those people are wrong and half of them finish in the bottom half of the class.

Bottom line I recommend taking the test you have taken the course and studied for months. There is not much more you can do, but if you truly believe you are not ready it is your call, but I don't think anyone that has ever taken the LSAT felt confident going in, but once it is done it will be a relief. The same feeling will be present throughout your law school career, the bar exam, and your career as a lawyer.

Good luck whatever you do.

103
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: NYLS or Retake??
« on: June 06, 2013, 05:38:16 PM »
Yes I think if you will not be comfortable attending NYLS then do not attend it is a highly personal decision and if you want to live and work in New Jersey attend law school in New Jersey. Do not go to law school just to go my point is many people say they want to go to law school, but they never end up going instead they are waiting for the perfect situation and if you wait for everything to be perfect nothing will ever get done.

It is entirely your choice and there is no right or wrong decision hopefully you get into Rutgers or Seton Hall next year.

104
Maintain is correct especially since you want to attend a school like Rutgers or Seton Hall it is all numbers. Obviously draft a competent personal statement, but they are looking through 4,000 or more applications and people on an admission committee are humans unless you have some extraordinary story such as being an NBA basketball player, Navy Seal, or something else that really jumps off the page your personal statement won't be that big of a deal.

Go to lawschoolnumbers.com and you will see how much of a numbers game law school admission is. The reason for this is these admissions committees are reading 4,000+ personal statements most of them saying I want to go to law school because I worked in a law firm, or I am seeking a challenge, etc, etc. These are all fine statements, but 99% of people do not have a story that will catch an admissions committee's attention.

If you really want to go get into a "higher school" although I believe that is a bad distinction then you are much better of spending time studying for the LSAT opposed to working on a personal statement.

105
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Can any transfers help me??
« on: June 03, 2013, 10:59:29 PM »
I think everyone above gives you advice and one of your last concerns about choosing a law school should how they rank percentages for the purpose of transferring. The main reason being to transfer you need to generally be in the top 20% of your class and there is an 80% chance you will not be in the top 20% no matter where you go.

On top of that first year of law school is a life changing event and many people do not transfer and very few people end up transferring. It could happen, but Fordham had 479 first year students last year and only 14 transferred out that is about 2%, which are what your odds of transferring will be most likely.  Bottom line do not attend a law school you will not be happy graduating from.

106
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: NYLS or Retake??
« on: June 03, 2013, 10:54:00 PM »
I am copying what I said on another thread regarding the flaws of placement statistics.

Law school transparency and employment statistics are not a great indicator of anything. Although I am all for law school transparency and their mission the reality is that tracking each student is impossible especially since it is not mandatory. If look on law school transparencies website typically the vast majority of students are unreported. This does not mean they are unemployed I know that when I graduated, passed the bar, and got a job I never reported. It was nothing personal I just didn't get around to it the same way I didn't get around to mailing a birthday card to a friend or some other inconsequential thing that occurs.

Bottom line is it doesn't hurt to look at the stats, but realize these come nowhere near painting an accurate picture of what the outcome of your law school career will be. There are Harvard grads that never passed the bar and Cooley grads who are doing quite well for themselves.

On top of that realize that each person is unique and has their own life circumstances for example several people in class got pregnant right after graduation they were married etc and dealt with 9 months of pregnancy opposed to 9 months of job searching. You cannot assume everyone graduates law school at 25 and is looking to go straight into working. On top of that by the time bar results get released it is 7 months after graduation at least in California and they are released a week before Thanksgiving and the majority of law firms do not hire anyone during the holidays.

I can tell you my law school has a law school transparency placement rate of about 50%, but almost everyone I know from my class is employed as an attorney now. I will admit I do not know everyone, but I surrounded myself with somewhat competent people and most of them did quite well. I also know there are several people who did not find jobs, but it had a lot more to do with them than school on their diploma. For example one of my friend's got hired as a D.A., but he failed his drug test and his offer was rescinded and it turns out he has a cocaine problem that is his own deal not the school's again that just shows the individuality of each person and why these law school stats are so flawed.

With that info use your common sense NYLS is not Columbia or Harvard, but it will teach you the law and you can have a successful legal career, but make sure it is the right fit for you. For the same reasons the employment statistics are flawed since they are highly individual your satisfaction with your law school decision will depend heavily on what is important to you so visit the school, make sure NY is what you want, talk to alumni, professors, etc and see if the school fits your personality.

Good luck whatever you decide.

107
Law school transparency and employment statistics are not a great indicator of anything. Although I am all for law school transparency and their mission the reality is that tracking each student is impossible especially since it is not mandatory. If look on law school transparencies website typically the vast majority of students are unreported. This does not mean they are unemployed I know that when I graduated, passed the bar, and got a job I never reported. It was nothing personal I just didn't get around to it the same way I didn't get around to mailing a birthday card to a friend or some other inconsequential thing that occurs.

Bottom line is it doesn't hurt to look at the stats, but realize these come nowhere near painting an accurate picture of what the outcome of your law school career will be. There are Harvard grads that never passed the bar and Cooley grads who are doing quite well for themselves.

On top of that realize that each person is unique and has their own life circumstances for example several people in class got pregnant right after graduation they were married etc and dealt with 9 months of pregnancy opposed to 9 months of job searching. You cannot assume everyone graduates law school at 25 and is looking to go straight into working. On top of that by the time bar results get released it is 7 months after graduation at least in California and they are released a week before Thanksgiving and the majority of law firms do not hire anyone during the holidays.

I can tell you my law school has a law school transparency placement rate of about 50%, but almost everyone I know from my class is employed as an attorney now. I will admit I do not know everyone, but I surrounded myself with somewhat competent people and most of them did quite well. I also know there are several people who did not find jobs, but it had a lot more to do with them than school on their diploma. For example one of my friend's got hired as a D.A., but he failed his drug test and his offer was rescinded and it turns out he has a cocaine problem that is his own deal not the school's again that just shows the individuality of each person and why these law school stats are so flawed.

Again they are worth browsing, but you should not make the life altering decision of what law school to attend based on some statistics that are flawed.

108
I have read many of your posts and agree with what you have had to say so I am going to go deep into my pockets and spend the $2.99 on your new book. Hopefully you will start posting on this site again as well.

109
First please please do not take the rankings seriously on top of that just because one person had a bad experience at a law school does not mean everyone did. I am an attorney and can tell you there are successful grads from all level of law schools and there are people from Harvard that never pass the bar.

Remember U.S. News is a for-profit unregulated magazine and the rankings change drastically year to year. University of San Francisco was top 100 last year and now they are 145 what happened at the school over one year? Nothing I guarantee you and I worked alongside several people who attended USF, Golden Gate, Santa Clara, Hastings, Davis, etc and the name of our school never comes up getting our job done does.

As to your question where do you want to live Nebraska or Denver? If you want to live in Nebraska then Nebraska will be a good fit and if you want to live in Denver that will serve your purpose. If you do not want to live in Denver or Nebraska do not go to school to either of those places.

I was a OL once and like you took the rankings far to seriously, but now realize what absolute B.S. they are. It is a magazine nothing more who has ranked Albuquerque, New Mexico as the best place to live. http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/real-estate/articles/2009/06/08/best-places-to-live-2009 Will you move to Albuquerque, because U.S. News says it is #1 probably not same logic applies to law school.

I will also tell you what you learn at an ABA law school is exactly the same you will take torts, contracts, civil procedure, property, and you will read Supreme Court Decisions and believe it or not they do not write seperate opinions for Harvard v. Dayton it is the same you will then graduate and take Barbri or Kaplan to pass the bar and if you pass your an attorney. There is no Tier 4 law school license they are all the same.

I see a lot of the mistakes I made as a OL in your post so I apologize for my rambling, but just use common sense when choosing your school and do not use U.S. News as the main factor for your decision especially when dealing with schools of this caliber. If it were Harvard or somethign it would matter, but I guarantee you nobody knows what these schools are ranked.

110
Choosing the Right Law School / Re: NYLS or Retake??
« on: May 30, 2013, 08:47:50 PM »
This is a complicated decision and I am an attorney, but take anything I say with a grain of salt along with anything else you read on anonymous internet poster boards. With that said I would like to make a few points.

1) First your 149 LSAT you say you took a course, but were not as dedicated as you could have been. I will tell you that almost every LSAT taker thinks they could have done better and were somewhat disappointed with their score after all 90% of people that take the test do not finish in the top 10%. I don't know how seriously you took the test, but even a 149 is tough that puts in the 50th percentile of LSAT takers and that is from a pool of college graduates that were motivated enough to take the LSAT. A 149 is not going to get you into Harvard, but it is good enough to get you into an ABA school, which is an accomplishment. 

If you went to the courses did what you were supposed to do etc and 149 is what you got that is probably what you will get next time around. Or maybe you just didn't stay focused enough, but will you be focused enough the next time around? I think all of us when we join a gym say we will go everyday, but that doesn't happen. I am sure you are telling yourself if you study for the LSAT again you will dedicate yourself and take a practice test everyday, etc but the reality is you probably will put in about the same effort you did previously.

2) Sitting out a year is a big decision realistically if you have been working in a legal environment and enjoy it and have a law school admission ticket you might want to go to school now. Life has a way of getting in the way and if you wait for a year of law school what is going to stop you from waiting again next year. Or perhaps you will get into a relationship, have a family issue, etc and I think if you wait for everything to be perfect you will never get anything done, but that is just me.

3) I also want to point out to you the fallacies of law school rankings etc. I can tell you the education at Rutgers is no different than NYLS, CUNY, Brooklyn Law, etc your first year will consist of Torts, Contracts, Property, Criminal Law, Civil Procedure and you will read Supreme Court cases from a textbook written by Epstein whether you are at Harvard or Touro. Then you will graduate and take Barbri or Kaplan once you graduate and pass the bar your a lawyer period.

Remember that U.S. News is nothing, but a for-profit unregualted magazine offering an opinion and do not make life altering decisions based on it. I can tell you I worked for a government agency in New York and there were lawyers from NYLS, CUNY, Columbia, Penn, Yale, Harvard, etc all working side by side a lawyer is a lawyer. I cannot tell you how many 0L's myself included as a 0L take that magazine way to seriously.

On top of that you mention Rutgers as a better option than NYLS I can tell you nobody cares about whatever difference there is between Rutgers and NYLS I have no idea what there rankings are, but I know they are both well outside of the top 25 and nobody says Rutgers here is a job. If it were Harvard, Yale, or something like that it might make a difference, but nobody cares about the difference between T2-T3 schools particularly in a market like New York.

4) Transferring DO NOT GO TO LAW EXPECTING TO TRANSFER. To transfer you essentially need to be in the top 20% of the class at a minimum and no knock on you, but there is an 80% chance you will not be in the top 20%. Everyone at an ABA law school is smart, hard-working, and motivated and 100% of people on the first day are certain they will be in the top 10%, but you don't need to be a math major to see 90% of people will be wrong.

5) 15k a year scholarship at NYLS there is a 50% chance you will lose that scholarship as an FYI for the reasons mentioned above nobody on the first day of law school could fathom they would be in the bottom 50% of the class, but 50% of the students at every law school finish in the bottom half so be prepared to lose that.

6) I would also add you should look into CUNY they offer in-state tuition at only 10k a year or so, which would be cheaper than NYLS even with a 15k a year scholarship that you could lose years 2 and 3. Just an FYI.

7) I also strongly encourage you to visit any school you are interested and see how you feel about it. I used to work right by NYLS and I didn't like the vibe of it, but that doesn't mean you won't I know plenty of people that enjoyed their experience there and law school is a highly personal decision so visit NYLS and WNEC and see how you feel about the school.

8) Finally just go into law school with the appropriate expectations I think many people go into law school for the wrong reasons and with ridiculous expectations. You are working in a legal environment and it sound like you enjoy it and are seeing what lawyers do first hand, which is important to understand. Many people belive you graduate law school and automatically get handed a 6 figure job, which is just not true.

NYLS, WNEC, CUNY or many schools will give you a legal education and get you a law license what you do with it will be up to you. As far as retaking if you sincerley think things will be different then I guess go for it, but generally people do not improve that much and you will lose a year of your career as a lawyer. I knew many people that kept waiting for a better LSAT or better acceptances etc, but they never ended up going. I know one girl that kept retaking the LSAT for 5 years I graduated and passed the bar and she was still trying to get a higher score and as far I know she never went to law school.

If I was you, which I am not I would go for it if you really want to be a lawyer, but you know your personal situation and ability to improve far better than I or anyone else on posting anonymous on the internet.

Good luck to you whatever you decide.


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