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Messages - Yuki Sprite
« on: June 29, 2012, 02:25:52 AM »
Hey, thanks man, that's nice of you to say. Don't worry, I won't be going out of my way for the ABA. Also, it has been my experience that most people I talk to who aren't in the legal profession are like:
People: "Where did you go to school?"
Me: "XYZ school of law in CA."
People: "Wow, very nice."
Of course, they don't recognize or care about the name.
What you said about the importance of your school after two years of work experience is what I have heard from other people also. "You go to college to get your first job."
« on: June 26, 2012, 10:00:33 PM »
The unconstitutionality comes from a state regulation that prohibits someone, who is capable, from acquiring ABA accreditation, and by extension the right to take the bar exam and practice law. Additionally, it could be argued that a school that accepts government funds and arbitrarily classifies and rejects students based on their prior, advanced, education is discriminating. However, if being barred from admittance were a requirement set forth by the ABA for accredited schools to follow, then that rule would be unconstitutionally discriminatory because the rule creates an arbitrary class and the ABA is performing a public function.
I attended a correspondence law school. So, we were required to log a minimum of 864 (if I remember correctly) hours of study each year. The program was, as required by law, four years long. We generally had assignments due biweekly, and a conference once a year which was for orientation, appellate advocacy, and trial advocacy (no required attendance for year two which came before appellate ad). Proctored final exams culminated each six-month set of courses. An exam typically included 25-50 Multiple choice and 2-3 essays (closed book and lasting typically 3 hours) (1 final for each class - normally 3 classes per semester) and accounted for the majority of a student's grade. An exception was the UCC final which had a combination of multiple choice and true or false questions, a series of short answers, and 8 or so essays. That exam was open book to the extent that we could reference that 5 inch book of rules, regulations, and statutes. Of course, each course's assignments and final exam varied to some extent.
In regards to the resources used. The required textbooks were generally the applicable horn-book (i.e. Prosser and Keeton), Gilberts outlines, Case books, and recorded audio lectures by the adjunct professor. Of course, everyone used additional materials like: Law-in-a-flash, Barbri, Fleming, Sum and Substance, and practice exam materials (like Finz and PMBR).
Compared to a regular attendance school, there was virtually no social interaction between classmates except for occasional phone conference calls and the annual conference (which required attendance). My school typically has students from across the country and world. Between my class and the classes immediately ahead and behind, there were students from five different countries and 3-4 continents. The time zones make live phone calls difficult to schedule. A lot of lonely nights studying all by myself
On the up side, the cost of tuition + books + air fair and lodging for conferences + air fair, lodging, and the cost of the exams for the FYLSE and the Bar exam = less than one years tuition at a regular school (less than 50-60 K). So, lacking in social interaction (and accreditation) but a high quality legal education. I think that my class, the people I kept in touch with anyway, had a high majority pass-rate on the CA Bar. Higher, I think, than norm (about 46%).
« on: June 26, 2012, 07:05:33 PM »
I Emailed Berkeley, and they said that my status as an attorney precludes admittance to the J.D. program. They stated that it was their school's policy and inferred that it was not related to an accrediting agency's regulations. Not that it matters to me, because I have no interest in expending the effort and finances to get a second J.D. (that would probably be from a low-tier school anyway).
In addition, since you're already a member of the bar, it's possible that you're more or less prohibited from attending law school again. You'd have such a huge advantage over your non-lawyer classmates that schools might be very skeptical about admitting you. I imagine that neither the ABA nor the individual law schools themselves want to encourage people to obtain bar admission first, then seek admission to law school. You may even want to check with the CA bar, they may have some restrictions on acquiring a second J.D.
However, I do think that the system is unfair, or at least clumsy, in that it does not provide a reasonable way for someone like me to prove competency, since most state's bar exams, by themselves, are apparently inadequate indicators of competency. The unfairness is obvious when you consider that if I were barred from acquiring a second J.D. from an ABA school because of prior education and certification, that regulation would certainly be unconstitutional discrimination (even if you classify this as a non-suspect/ non-fundamental right, my willingness to meet the standard through a second J.D. would preclude the regulation from having a "rational basis"). And, if I were allowed to acquire a second J.D., As Roald said, it would be unfair to the other students because I would easily outperform them academically (which is ridiculously ironic).
Oh well, I'll definitely maintain my license, but since I don't want to practice law as a profession, this isn't really my fight. I may still end up getting an LL.M. in tax after finishing the CPA exam, but only because the professionals I've spoken with said that it would be a great career move if I ever got into consulting.
Thanks for the input everyone.
« on: June 25, 2012, 05:27:49 PM »
Thanks for the information (Roald
). Like I said, I'm curious about the procedure for acquiring ABA after becoming licensed. Plus, I'm just considering my options because I'm in my early twenties, so even if I were to go through law school all over again, I would still graduate with my pier group. Also, being from a non-ABA school, this kind of information is nice to know when new students or alumni have questions.
However, I am starting a career in business through accounting and if I ever were to practice law, it would probably either be federal law (i.e. federal tax, bankruptcy, or patent) or as a professional consultant (not requiring license). So, repeating a J.D. for the purpose of ABA is not beneficial to me.
Moving back to the question of an LL.M. in tax, without regards to ABA-accreditation, do you guys have any LL.M. program recommendations that are doable for someone who is working full time in LA? The reason I ask is because, and I know this is contrary to the common view on this forum, the acquisition of an LL.M. has been highly recommended to me by high-ranking business professionals (corporate in-house counsels, accountants, consultants, and analysts) with whom I have spoken. And, when I say highly recommended, I mean HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. So, this question comes without regards to the merits of an LL.M. Also, it would be nice to associate with a well respected institutional brand.
« on: June 25, 2012, 12:54:44 PM »
By the way,
I have a fully accredited undergraduate degree. I'm guessing that factors in somehow.
« on: June 25, 2012, 12:44:34 PM »
So my school is registered as an unaccredited law school.
Purely out of curiosity, as a CA attorney from an unaccredited law school, what would be the absolute fastest way to get a JD that is accredited by the ABA? Is an ABA-accredited school allowed to accept any transfer credits from an unaccredited school?
(kind-of sounds nice to go to law school and not have to worry about taking the bar exam at the end
« on: June 25, 2012, 11:45:48 AM »
State accredited...? Not sure. I'm licensed to practice CA law and I can go through the motions to become licensed to practice federal law as well.
But, I think my school's website says that it is not accredited by CA. I'm not clear on those technicalities.
The reason I'm wondering about getting ABA is, in part, because I think that having a fully accredited degree would look better on a resume (duh), and also just because I'm curious. On a bit of a side note, I'm studying for the CPA exam, and if I where to be able to get an LLM in tax and get ABA accreditation at the same time... couldn't hurt.
« on: June 25, 2012, 06:58:52 AM »
I graduated from a non-ABA California law school, passed the bar exam, got sworn in, etc.
My question now is, how do I get ABA accreditation???
I don't want to repeat 3 years of law school, so I'm wondering if I can get an LLM from an ABA school that will give me all the rights and privileges afforded to ABA JDs. Would the LLM need to be in a specific major? I read somewhere that most states just require that the applicant have 26 ABA-Accredited credits in bar exam subjects. Could I complete an LLM designed for foreign lawyers? Or, would it be possible for me to get an LLM that is specialized (i.e. tax or business law).
I'm not planning on practicing law. So, this is more of a career move than a professional (law practice) move. I'm planning on starting work by the end of this year, so something I could do part time would be preferable (like Professional (summer school), online (I've sort-of had enough of online), or evenings) I would also prefer the best brand name I could get.
Any input on this issue would be greatly appreciated.
Btw, sorry for any typos, I'm writing this at 3:50 in the morning.