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Messages - Jeffort

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I have really hard time swallowing the Conditional Reasoning section from PowerScore.

On page 116 of Logical Reasoning Bible it says...

"The sufficient condition does not make the necssary condition occur.  "

and then...

"occurrence of the sufficient condition is a sign or indicator that the necessary cnodition will occur"


and on next page....

someone receiving an A+ (Sufficient) is a sign that indicates that studying(Necessary) must also have occurred.

and then.....

A+ (Sufficient) does not make the studying (Necessary) occur

In sum, does the sufficient condition make the necessary condition occur or NOT!!!????

Sufficient and necessary/conditional relationships do not NECESSARILY entail cause and effect.  Conditional relationships are in large part different than cause and effect relationships, however, there is some overlap between the two types of basic logic.

With conditional relationships, the truth of the sufficient condition guarantees the truth of the necessary condition, logically speaking, but that does not mean that the occurrence of the sufficient condition caused the necessary condition to be true.  One conditions truth REQUIRES the other to be true, but that does not mean that the sufficient condition came first and caused the necessary to be true.  The order the two conditions became true in time (temporally) can go either way.  It's just a matter of logical truth.  If you know that A is true, then you can conclude that B is true, but absent other context or subject matter stuff the established relationship tells you nothing about causal or temporal relationships between the conditions. 

Studying for the LSAT / Re: D-Day, T-Minus 45 Hours
« on: June 06, 2010, 01:54:12 PM »

For Today, the last day before T-day, just relax.  No timed practice tests, no review and studying.  Just do something relaxing that keeps your mind off the test.  Watch movies or have a Calgon Moment or something.    Just DO NOT STUDY, WORK A BUNCH OF PROBLEMS, OR DO A PRACTICE TEST.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: The Official LSAT Handbook by LSAC
« on: June 04, 2010, 04:23:47 PM »
Has anybody looked into this book?

 I saw it on LSAC's website, and I am curious about the length and the content quality.

What are your ideas?

This is a new book and I don't think the first copies have begun shipping yet.  The publication date is listed as June 21, 2010.  For $10 (direct from LSAC) I'm sure it wont hurt since it is written by LSAC.  According to the description, it contains recycled content that is also contained in the LSAC SuperPrep, plus some expansion on that stuff.  It is 200 pages, whereas the SuperPrep is 400 pages, so I wouldn't expect anything brand new or super groundbreaking. 

I would guess that since it's called the LSAT Handbook, that it has all the registration and test rules and regulations stuff, FAQ's, stuff about LSDAS, the application process and LSAC online application stuff, etc.  all put together in one handy reference book along with a test, explanations for it, and a basic overview of the section and question types.   

Hey dudes, I'm here in the room too.  If you are confused about what I meant you can just ask me for clarification, stop assuming things and stop putting words in my mouth please. 

How about this version:  Two years is a heck of a long time to spend studying and practicing for ONE standardized test that tests the same narrow set of skills in the same/similar ways every time (no big surprises on the test!).  You might get sick of the same old same old after a while.  Plus, it is reasonable to believe that with such long term study and practice that you would have hit your peak prepped/studied/learned/practiced score potential in less time provided you prepare/study and practice effectively.  There is a concept called the law of diminishing returns. 

I can hear it now.  A hypothetical conversation between two people that somehow met and became friends while both first started thinking about prepping for the LSAT.  Conversation takes place ~2 years after they first met:

A:  "Hey B, how's it going?"
B:  "Not bad A, and you?"
A:  "Good, just finished second semester 2L finals at XYZ Law School, It feels like I got run over by the crim pro final, the fact pattern was cRaZy but I think I did alright on it.  I'm going to be clerking for judge PDQ this summer in HappyGetaJobVille and have to move next week.  I don't think my cat is going to like the trip, she flipped out last time she was on a plane, good thing the vet gave me those kitty tranc pills.  If you are still in the area we should get lunch or something.  What are you up to these days?"
B:  "I'm working on grouping games, they are kicking my butt.  I just did birds in the forest again and got 2 wrong.  I made a stupid mistake.   :(  "
A:  "Oh cool, you're teaching LSAT classes and tutoring people now?  I hear there is good money doing that, a few of my classmates in LS do that on the side for extra spending cash and drinking $$$, you've certainly been studying for that thing long enough to know it well enough to teach it to anyone.  That sounds like a good gig."
B:  "ehh, no, I'm not teaching it, canceled my last score and I'm taking it again but am worried because I've worked all ~60 tests at least 3 times each and don't have a new one to use for more timed practice."

Studying for the LSAT / Re: Analog Watch?
« on: May 28, 2010, 12:17:47 AM »
Does anyone know of any good analog watches that will work for the LSAT?  I don't have a watch and would like to purchase one for the LSAT but obviously it has to conform to the standards that are allowable.  Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.

As long as it is analog and does not have any extra digital features it is allowed.  You can get really cheap basic ones at Walmart or Target.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: PT-24-2-18 reconcile question
« on: May 27, 2010, 03:56:51 PM »

To make it easy to see the discrepancy and how (E) resolves it, image that 10 years ago the funding was $1.  A six fold increase would give you $6.  Not much $$$ overall because the figure being multiplied is very small. 

Thank you for the tips,
I am going to take an lsat preptest cold when my amazon order arives and then focus on the bibles.  If i get into my goal range can i take the test then?  Or do you have to complete a bachelors first?  It sure would be sweet to get the test out of the way asap, or have the time to take it multiple times 8)

When you take that first cold/virgin run 'get my baseline' test I suggest you use a fairly recent test form (2005-current) and that you stick to the timed conditions when you take it in order to get a more accurate 'test environment' score of your performance. 

That means:
  -  35 minutes, down to the second!!! per section.  No few extra seconds here and there,  No little 15-60 second 'breather' breaks in between sections.  When one section ends the next one immediately begins, get used to it.
  -  Take the test somewhere you don't usually study or hang out in that has distractions.  A coffee place or whatever, just NOT AT HOME in the comfort of your room/private workspace.  Being in a familiar safe place where you are in control of the environment influences your state of mind and performance.  You will not have that luxury on test day.

You can register for and take the test anytime you want as long as you meet the registration deadlines since you are an UG student.  You don't have to have graduated from UG yet to take it. 

Time is on your side for sure since you are planning far in advance, unlike many students that suddenly get bitten by the law school bug, wake up one morning, suddenly register to take the LSAT not many weeks before the administration that then show up blind and unprepared for the test and, in front of everyone in the room, ask the proctor questions like "How much time do we get per section?"

Hopefully you will not need to take it multiple times.  It's best to be properly prepared and give it your best shot once.  Keep your motivation and optimism up, you're going to need it.  There will be ups and downs along the road and you are about to get the sobering reality alert biotch slap by your first cold run diagnostic score.  Let us know how it goes.

Go take that LSAT now. Its good for 5 years. Some lawschools only require an AA to attend and I took my lsat before that even(and latter retook it and did worse the second time to be honest with you) You can take it right now if you wish. Go for it.

Ignore this guy, he is a troll/flame (not a very good one) trying to stir up trouble. 

If you obtained that section legitimately you should have been provided the answer key.  That test is from the LSAT SuperPrep book, which contains the answer key.  Otherwise, the only way to legitimately get a licensed copy of a section of that test is by being an enrolled student in a prep class that licenses LSAT tests from LSAC since that test is not published in any commercial book one can buy except the LSAC LSAT SuperPrep.

FYI, it's not a good idea to indicate that you are violating copyrights and to solicit others to do the same on LSAT related discussion boards.  LSAC and many others in the LSAT prep world that play by the rules (that means people and organizations that hand over $$$ to LSAC for a license to get and use the copyrighted materials) watch and monitor the boards, and we don't much like cheaters, thieves or intellectual property pirates. 

You can get a copy of the SuperPrep book for around $20, it is a great resource and well worth the $$$.  It contains three LSAT tests (including the one you need the answer key for) and detailed explanations for every question in those tests.  Please keep your ethics intact while you seek admission to LS.

I have 2 years to prepare for the lsat. My current plan is to read through all 3 PowerScore bibles once or twice if i have the time. I will also be filling out lsat prep-tests, starting with the older ones from the book "the next 10 lsat prep-tests". I will fill out the tests slowly at first, and then as he test date approaches i will concentrate more on the prep-tests and take a lot of them at the end. However, i am wondering if the PowerScore bibles are worth the time and money ($150) or if i should be buying a different book instead. I don't have the money for a prep-class ($2,000) but i am sure i have the self discipline to study on my own. So, is this the route to take? Has anyone used the PowerScore bibles as their primary source to study for the lsat? What else should i do, or does this plan sound solid?
John Levine

2 years is a lot of time, and perhaps too much to spread your prep time over.  You could easily burn out and also run out of fresh LSAT materials to use for practice long before your test date.

Depending on how you currently score on a full timed test vs. what your goal score is, you may not need nearly that much time.  If you are serious about starting this far in advance, the first thing you should do is take a full LSAT under timed conditions and see how you score so that you get an idea of how much you need to improve to achieve your desired score to be a competitive applicant at the Law Schools you are interested in attending.  Once you have done that you then evaluate how much time and effort you really need to put in to accomplish your goal.

As for doing the self study routine with prep books, the Powerscore Bibles are certainly the best LSAT prep books available for self study. 

Once you start, going through and working tests slowly as you read through and study the bibles is a good idea.  After you read and absorb each chapter of each book it is important to apply what you learned by working LSAT question types the chapter was about so that you instill the principles and techniques you learned into your mind and get good at applying them.  You want to do this in slow motion as you learn the basics before you move into the phase of doing many timed practice tests. 

Everyone learns and improves at a different rate, so you might be able to get yourself scoring in your goal range in a few months.  If that happens, there is no sense waiting another year or more to get the test out of the way.  If you find yourself only improving slowly, then you have plenty more time to study and work on it. 

Studying for the LSAT / Re: PT-25-4-14
« on: May 23, 2010, 02:39:47 PM »
D is wrong for either...or....?
For b, past generations had preserved for us=books?

(D) is the correct answer choice.  It basically paraphrases the argument in a slightly more general way since it refers to anything, not just books.  The first sentence says we should preserve books.  The second sentence tells us why, to benefit future generations.  Instead of using the phrase 'future generations', (D) uses the word posterity, which means the same thing.

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