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Messages - Jeffort

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I read online that when getting to test center, you can be expected to wait a hour to get a room, since the December test says I have to be there at 8:30 what would be the actual time
People are in room and starting (after instructions).

also im having trouble getting energized after waking up at 6 - though now
I have no issues with it - is it normal ?

The time the proctors tell you to open the test book and start section one varies by test center.  It depends largely on how many people show up to take the test at the particular test center.  For most centers, assuming no unexpected/extraordinary disruptive events (like another 'occupy' protest/sit-in breaking out in front of the building) occur, section one typically begins at roughly 9:15-9:30 a.m. and can be as late as 10:00a.m. if there are a lot of students to check-in/assign to rooms before the proctors are allowed to distribute the materials and read the instructions before saying GO!

Your second question is unclear.  If you have been waking up early for at least several days and now have no issues with being energized in the morning hours, the answer is yes, that is normal and a good thing so that you are alert and your brain is firing on all cylinders when the test begins. 

Good luck!

Studying for the LSAT / Re: URGENT - Death in family- taking December test
« on: November 17, 2011, 08:04:47 PM »
Months of studying and looking forward to a date - i have no choice but to take it as im hoping to get admissions for 2012.

You should revisit this idea while your emotions from the grieving process progress because you do have a choice.

Life is filled with unexpected events and circumstances that interfere with how you planned and hope things will go. You have to make adjustments along the way since nothing will ever go perfectly according to plan.

If you are able to refocus and achieve practice test scores that are in your goal range during the last week leading up to the December test (On fresh PrepTests you have not been exposed to before and take under honest/strict test-day simulated conditions), go ahead and take it.  If not, reconsider your plans and maybe withdraw your LSAT registration. You have until midnight the day before the test to do that so that nothing shows up on your CAS report and it does not count towards the three times in two years LSAT rule. 

It is not the end of the world if you have to postpone applying to law school for one year.  You should only take an officially administered LSAT when you are in proper condition to achieve the highest score you are capable of since the reported score has enormous influence on your admission chances to quality schools. 

My condolences about your loss.  Experiencing the death of a loved one sucks and takes time to get over. 

Studying for the LSAT / Re: MLIC LSAT PREP COURSE
« on: October 22, 2011, 07:43:33 PM »
Anyone familiar with MLIC?  They guarantee a score of 165.

As a general rule of thumb, any prep source/company that guarantees a score is a bad one and should be avoided.  For many reasons, nobody can honestly guarantee a place on the scoring scale that their students will achieve or exceed on test day.  None of the quality/reputable prep sources offer this type of a guarantee.  It's a desperate and pathetic marketing ploy typically used by unscrupulous prep companies run by people that don't know how to effectively prepare people to take the LSAT. 

Roughly 92% of people that take the LSAT score below 165.  If this company has discovered a magic formula that works to ensure most or all of their students score in the top eight percent of test takers, I'd like to know what it is since it would revolutionize LSAT prep and higher education in general.  Unfortunately, no simple/magical 'just do XYZ and you'll score 165 or above guaranteed' educational formula, system or pill exists since the LSAT is a skills based achievement/aptitude test.  Students have different starting points and proficiency/understanding/skill levels with the logic and other skills tested by the LSAT that depend in part on abilities acquired/developed during previous education in grade school/middle school/high school and college. 

In short form, you cannot buy the skill sets the LSAT is designed to measure in order to achieve a particular desired score, but you can buy quality education that builds on existing academic ability to IMPROVE performance on the LSAT.

If you are a legit student rather than a shill/spammer for the company, I suggest you avoid them like you would try to avoid a plague.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: from untimed to timed?
« on: October 19, 2011, 06:44:48 PM »
Timed practice is largely overrated. Take a timed test once a week just to see what neighborhood your score is in and to get a feel for your pacing. It's counter intuitive, but your speed is going to come from slow, deliberate practice, not racing the clock.

Also, I suspect your score is going to be high enough that you can't justify skipping the "hard" questions.

The one thing I would add to this is that even with untimed practice you want to be developing the habits that you will actually use on the test. Sounds obvious, but I found that I had certain habits in untimed practice that I completely disregarded when I was up against the clock. Develop the habits in untimed practice that can still be useful taking the test.

This is a really important and frequently overlooked aspect of how to effectively prepare for the LSAT in order to perform well when it counts. 

While under the security rules/procedures, stress, and time pressure of test day, it's just you with a #2 wood pencil in hand, a flimsy test booklet, a bubble answer sheet, your brain and how it is trained/programmed to react split second. 

Online/computer/multi-media devices content/videos/etc. can be very helpful for instruction about the content and concepts of the test to educate and help guide you about how to do the homework effectively. 

However, when you do the homework by working LSAT questions to apply what you have learned (whether doing questions timed or untimed and/or within whichever organization you go with), it's important to do them on paper with a pencil.  Doing the homework that way helps train/ingrain habits through repetition that are important on test day so they are automatic and you don't mess-up or have to waste time thinking about anything except the materials in front of you and selecting the credited answer choices when every point matters.


Studying for the LSAT / Re: Logic Games Ultimate Setups Guide
« on: July 14, 2011, 05:31:37 AM »
Yeah, I have the book and pdf also.  You need all the preptests since it's not included in the book.  I'm comparing my initial setup with the ones provided by the book.  I'm still a little bit confused on grouping, and other advanced games.  But I've got basic linear down.  My setup for others are still a little bit off.  It's kind of hard, since I'm teaching myself material based on the book.

Plus the book doesnt provide you with explainations for all of the questions.  They only provide setup diagram, a brief explanation about the game, and address 1 or 2 complicated questions in each game.  Worth getting, if you want to ace the LG section.   

hello,can u pls send me the pdf (if possible ) to ,i am a student and i need the LSAT logic games ultimate setup also LSAT kaplan 180 for RC,it would be really helpful if u can send me .....

Hey Azeez,

You are almost 7 years late asking Casper to violate copyright laws and pirate materials for you.  It's especially great that you shared your email address and name.  In case you didn't notice, the URL/weblink in Caspers user profile is for the New York County District Attorney's office, which might mean that he became a prosecutor after attending law school.

You'll surely make a great lawyer!  :D Good Luck!  :D :D :D :D

Studying for the LSAT / Re: Preptest 34 s4 8-12
« on: July 13, 2011, 03:34:30 PM »
You start by writing out the lecture possibilities for each of the five weeks as described in the indented rules (1st week K/L/M, 2nd week K/L/M/N, 3rd week M/N, fourth week M/N, fifth week N/O/P) and then narrow down the possibilities from there.  Since 3rd and 4th weeks can only be either M or N, you eliminate M and N from the other weeks and further narrow down the possibilities from that with two templates.  3rd M & 4th N or 3rd N & 4th M.  It gets pretty easy once you break it down into those two templates/scenarios.

My experience with the LSAT is that the first 30 hours or so of study are going to give you a significant boost.  Your next score bump comes after about 150 hours of study. 

The writers of the LSAT have stated that a person needs to study for 6 months to do well.

The good news is that you have plenty of time left.  The LSAT is so important that I would recommend that you take a live prep class.  I know it is a lot of money.  But, isn't getting into a tier 1 school worth that money?  I think the 160's are within reach for you, whether or not you take the live class.  The live classes tend to avg. +3-5 points.  I think it's because you will get an experienced coach who can watch what you are doing and help you to tweak it.   

Regardless, take a bunch more practice tests.  Good luck, and let us know what happens!

Obviously the OP needs to put in additional quality prep/study time to further improve his/her score, that is a given.

However, I take issue with your generalizations and the supposed statistics you claim to be true (especially the above bolded parts).

If you have reference sources that support your claims and stats I'd love to see where you got your info from, since I'm pretty sure none exist.  To my knowledge LSAC has never taken a position about how long it takes to adequately prepare for the test or made any specific 'how to' or 'how long' LSAT prep recommendations aside from the study guides and test question explanations included in their SuperPrep book.

How did you come up with the idea that live prep class students average 3-5 points improvement?  From my many years experience teaching classes and tutoring students I think your figure is low.  However, since outside of the internal stats prep companies keep about their students (which they don't make available to the public) there is no available large empirical data source of students first practice test score + final reported score, which makes your claimed statistic merely a guess. 

Please don't guess/make up generalizations or numbers and try to pass them off as facts/statistics to students. 

There is no "One size fits all" formula to successfully prepare for the LSAT and significantly improve ones score.   Skilled experienced LSAT teachers/tutors generally do not/will not make claims along the lines of:  X # of hours per day/week of study/prep, Y # of weeks/months of prep, or taking X# of timed practice tests should or will or are needed to achieve Z # of points improvement or whatever scaled score, since no such formula/metric exists.     

To the OP John1990:

You have plenty of time ahead of you before the June 2011 LSAT, so you should not be worrying about timing (finishing sections in 35 minutes) and taking timed practice tests now.  Instead you should spend your study time working and analyzing the questions in slow motion, reviewing the concepts and applicable strategies and techniques, reviewing the concepts, questions you missed, mistakes you made, areas/concepts/question types that are giving you more trouble than others, etc.

Simply doing the "churn and burn" routine of taking a bunch of timed sections/full tests does not do much to improve your understanding of the concepts tested and your resulting analytical/reasoning skills that you need to apply to the questions in order to answer more of them correctly.  You should spend a good portion of your study time reviewing everything and balance that in with practice/working problems time. 
Focus more on accuracy and understanding right now instead of simply trying to work on your timing.  Timing improves naturally with better understanding of how to analyze and go about approaching each question/section type (meaning improved skills = improved accuracy and less time needed to solve each question correctly). 

One thing you might want to try that would be a good way to help you identify weak areas/concepts/etc. you need to work on/review/improve is to take a a full test you haven't seen before untimed in one sitting with the goal of getting as many questions as you can correct (try to get a 180 untimed without cheating and also without time pressure). 

Just you and a fresh preptest for a day.  Work through each section without ever checking the answer key or looking at other prep materials until you have selected what you believe to be the credited answer choice for each question.  Doesn't matter if you spend up to an hour or more per section and take some breaks as long as you do it all in one sitting/day without looking at/using anything else to help do it other than your pencils, eraser and maybe scratch paper.  When you are done and have made a firm decision for every question, then score it.  You will probably be surprised at the result since most people incorrectly believe that they or anybody else can/will get a 180 when not faced with the time pressure.   

The questions you answer incorrectly when you do this will highlight your current reasoning errors, concept mis-understandings/weaknesses and lots more stuff that is helpful to know in order to guide further directed study aimed at shoring up your weak areas/vulnerabilities.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: Should I take the LSAT again?
« on: January 13, 2011, 08:02:16 AM »
Although law school admissions is primarily a numbers game, I think some of the comments in this thread are underestimating the influence and importance of soft factors.  Admission committees do pay close attention to and place significant weight on personal statements and LOR's, etc.

It's impossible to assign an across the board percentage to how much weight is placed on soft factors since it varies by school.  Some LS's are numbers whores, whereas other admission committees go with a much more holistic approach in making admit/reject decisions. 

Treat soft factors as insignificant/unimportant and submit a half-baked/low quality personal statement and LOR's  at your own peril! 

A crappy personal statement and/or weak LOR's can easily tank admission chances and cause rejection of an applicant that would otherwise be an auto-admit by the numbers alone.  I've heard of many instances of people with a high or near perfect GPA and high LSAT score getting rejected by schools they were at or above the 75% index numbers for.  Typically those people didn't take the PS and other application components seriously, didn't put in the effort, and submitted crap because they figured their numbers would cover for it and carry the day. 

As far as work experience is concerned, having worked in a law office or as a paralegal does not impress admission committees or even raise an eyebrow.  It does not give you any sort of edge over applicants that haven't worked in a law office/in the legal field.

PS:  please people, use the enter key to paragraph when making a long post, it makes it a lot easier to read.  ;)

Studying for the LSAT / Re: Bay Area Private LSAT Tutor Recommendation
« on: January 13, 2011, 06:59:30 AM »
I sent you a PM.  For anyone looking to hire a tutor, I'll repeat the advice I gave:

"I recommend answering a few tutor ads on Craigslist.  Any tutor confident in their ability to help you should at the least offer to chat on the phone with you, or some sort of moneyback guarantee after the first lesson if you don't find it useful.  Quality varies greatly between tutors, so I recommend talking to a few of them.  Ask about their teaching philosopy, or ask them to explain a question you found confusion, check what concepts they'll teach you.  At a bare minimum they should be able to teach you the skills I mentioned in the post above.  "   

Also, take a look at rates in your local area.  Most tutors will come down on price a bit if you can cite an alternative which charges less.  Score is important, but it's not the only thing.  They should be able to understand why you're NOT understanding, and explain things in a way which makes it "click" for you.

I 2nd this advice, especially the part about requesting a free trial session/consultation in order to screen potential tutors before making a commitment and handing over $$$.

Any good tutor should be willing and able to spend an hour or so on the phone with you to assess your situation and needs as well as to give you some free tutoring time to prove they know their stuff and can help you.  I always give a free no obligation hour or more consultation to students interested in hiring me as a tutor.   

Studying for the LSAT / Re: Score Release Details (a question)
« on: January 06, 2011, 08:15:18 AM »
If you have already received an LSAT score, I have a question for you:  On the release date, when are the scores released?  Are they available at 12:01 AM on the release date, or are they released after an e-mail is sent later in the day of the release date, or are they in the system at the close of business on the Friday before the release date, or...?

All of those things vary from test to test.  The constant is that scores have been released earlier than the LSAC stated score release deadline for every administration since Al Gore invented the internet.

Just hang loose and try not to obsess about it.  You will most likely get an email from LSAC with your score sometime before Monday the 10th;  late Friday - Saturday afternoon at the latest if there aren't any holds on your account.  The hour of the day you get the email and can access your records on release day is not predictable.

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