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Messages - Jeffort

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151
Studying for the LSAT / Re: Sept. '09 LSAT...TODAY IS THE DAY!!!!
« on: October 18, 2009, 04:46:16 PM »
171 ! Was scoring average of 176 on PrepTests  :-\

Missed 6 on Logic Games; I panicked even though they were so eeeeasssyy. And it could have been worse. I guessed on every question in the last game and got them all right!! I'm a lucky SOB i know. I left the test center completely distraught, thinking I missed them all. LG in December will definitely be harder, so I'm not taking the risk of panicking again.

Congrats to everyone that did well, and to those who didn't, don't give up if Law School is something you really want. Keep up the hard work.

Wait, what?  You missed 6 total on the 3 LG's you attempted but got them all correct by blind guessing on the last game?  That's impressive/super lucky and beats statistical odds by a long way.  Was there a certain lucky charm you were wearing?

I hope by mentioning the December test you are saying that you are NOT retaking!  Take that 171 and run with it.  Get them applications polished and complete and if possible submitted for EA/ED as appropriate.


152
I too am disappointed with my score. I got a 158 and this is the second time doing it. I was expecting 165+ as my average score on timed preptests (with an extra section included) was 164. I was wondering whether I should rewrite or keep the score with my cumulative gpa which is around 3.0-3.1, and my last gpa for my last 60 credits is ~3.2. Like what type of schools can I get into in Canada and in the states?

It depends on which schools you are willing to consider.  Your GPA is certainly on the low end and will probably impair your ability to get accepted into highly ranked schools.  The main workaround for that is a stellar LSAT score.  Otherwise, you need to do some serious research about the numbers game/index stats for various Law Schools to get an idea of which schools in whichever region you qualify for admission to.

US News and World reports publishes an annual ranking of Law Schools that contains many detailed admission statistics.

You can also find similar useful data as well as tons of other sobering LS related info from a different source here:

http://www.ilrg.com/
http://www.ilrg.com/rankings.html
 

153
Your 159 is not a terrible score by any means with its corresponding percentile rank if you are not seeking admission to a first tier Law School.  How it bodes for your admission chances to wherever greatly depends on the Law Schools you are seeking admission to.

An LSAT score of 164, had you achieved that, is significantly (by large amounts) higher in percentile rank than a 159 and would dramatically change the range of LS's you have a chance of admission to.

Since it seems that you have decided to re-take, the prep method to choose greatly depends on your learning style and time availability.  Some people learn better in a classroom environment, others do better by hibernating alone with a bunch of books. 

If you sign up for a classroom course and miss classes and/or do not keep up on doing the homework to put it all together you likely will not benefit as much.

You have to decide which of those ways works best for you or if a combination is appropriate, all things considered.  There is no 'one size fits all' strategy for achieving a highly ranked score on the LSAT.

No matter the way you do it the most important part for your future re-take score is you spending time reviewing the substance of the instruction you are given, applying it to the sections of the test, identifying your errors as you go, working to correct for them, and then lather rinse repeat.



Well I am not looking at going to any school below a tier 1 law school. Thus my interest in retaking the test. My number one choice law school is UCLA. Which has a 25th-75th of 164-168. My GPA is kind of strong (currently 3.56), so it is my LSAT score I am more concerned about. I was also looking at Loyola Law School which has a 25th-75th of 159-163, since I was hoping to get around 164 I wasn't that worried about it, but now that I am down at 159, I am concerned.

The main reason I am considering taking a class is because my first time around I self-studied and didn't do as well as I wanted. Perhaps I was missing something with it. I used the SuperPrep Book, individual prep tests, and a third party LSAT study book that had decent reviews. I studied for 3 months.

I'm in class or work all day Monday-Thursday and am unavailable until 8pm at night. So I'm wondering if paying for a class will also keep me on track as well as give me reason to study at night. Do you feel that just buying the powerscore or testmakers books can give me the same experience? I am usually very good at self-study so classroom vs. books is pretty much the same to me.

My main hope is to increase my score to the 164 minimum.

Ok, with tier 1 schools as your goal, especially UCLA and others in the Socal area, you definitely need a higher LSAT score to be competitive in the admissions race.  As a USC LS grad I will try to refrain from commenting about those silly Bruins that like to wear blue!   ;)  :D

Since you are looking at good Socal LS's, your GPA is pretty good and in range for UCLA, Loyola, or USC.

To prep properly for your December re-take, since you sound pretty busy, you need to have available and commit a good amount of time for prep many days and hours each week both for class time and homework/study time

I cannot emphasize this enough:  Time spent in an LSAT prep course receiving instruction is typically not enough.  You need to and should spend at least double that amount of time doing outside of class LSAT homework.  That entails applying, practicing, reviewing, and refining your understanding of what a course taught you about how to do well on the test.  Many students that take a prep class mistakenly think that just attending class is enough.  It is not.  Class and/or books supply you with the concepts of what is tested and techniques to use when attacking the questions, then it's up to the student to apply the knowledge and practice it by working and reviewing questions. 

With your busy schedule/time constraints I'm wondering how you would be able to fit in the necessary homework/practice time. 

Which 3rd party book did you use before?  On this board and from various other sources, the Powerscore Bibles are renowned as the best affordable commercially available LSAT prep books.  The Superprep book from LSAC is also very good but not nearly as comprehensive in terms of providing detailed strategies and such. 

Given your busy schedule, if you decide to take a class instead of doing self study again, with your two options I would go with the Powerscore Virtual course.  You can review each lesson anytime you want at will as well as access the other included online resources whenever you want.

* No-Shill disclaimer * :  I have been teaching LSAT prep courses and tutoring students seeking Law School Admission for about 9 years and currently work for Powerscore.



154
Studying for the LSAT / Re: Sept. '09 LSAT...TODAY IS THE DAY!!!!
« on: October 17, 2009, 02:10:43 AM »
Thanks. Funny thing is that I had a dream a couple nights ago that I got a 169.

I'm going to assume that since it was a dream, not a nightmare, that the number you dreamed of was missing the digit 1 on the front end.


155
Your 159 is not a terrible score by any means with its corresponding percentile rank if you are not seeking admission to a first tier Law School.  How it bodes for your admission chances to wherever greatly depends on the Law Schools you are seeking admission to.

An LSAT score of 164, had you achieved that, is significantly (by large amounts) higher in percentile rank than a 159 and would dramatically change the range of LS's you have a chance of admission to.

Since it seems that you have decided to re-take, the prep method to choose greatly depends on your learning style and time availability.  Some people learn better in a classroom environment, others do better by hibernating alone with a bunch of books. 

If you sign up for a classroom course and miss classes and/or do not keep up on doing the homework to put it all together you likely will not benefit as much.

You have to decide which of those ways works best for you or if a combination is appropriate, all things considered.  There is no 'one size fits all' strategy for achieving a highly ranked score on the LSAT.

No matter the way you do it the most important part for your future re-take score is you spending time reviewing the substance of the instruction you are given, applying it to the sections of the test, identifying your errors as you go, working to correct for them, and then lather rinse repeat.


156
Studying for the LSAT / Re: Sept. '09 LSAT...TODAY IS THE DAY!!!!
« on: October 16, 2009, 11:18:29 PM »

157
Studying for the LSAT / Re: Sept. '09 LSAT...TODAY IS THE DAY!!!!
« on: October 16, 2009, 09:31:58 PM »
While I somewhat agree with you, LSAC could just as easily shut down access until the scores are posted.

True, but what about the people that need to access their other services for applications, information, etc. ??  

Why favor obsessed people waiting for a test score over people already working on applications?


158
Studying for the LSAT / Re: Sept. '09 LSAT...TODAY IS THE DAY!!!!
« on: October 16, 2009, 09:20:46 PM »
Maybe they do it by last name, alphabetically? I'm a W.

From previous score releases over the last several years it appears that the emails and associated pdf disclosure downloads being available on the LSAC webpage are done in batches by test center.  Meaning one test center per batch that the LSAC computers put out/make available.

Whether the order of release is by geographic location of the test center, say east coast to west coast, or by test center # is up to LSAC and not disclosed.

PS:  It certainly doesn't help the LSAC staff and their servers that are sending out the stuff speed up the process when people keep refreshing their browsers on lsac.org ~5 times per minute, thereby hogging bandwidth and server time.

Just a random guess, maybe if people would stop hitting refresh over and over in an OCD manner the stuff would get delivered faster...

/jsia

159
Studying for the LSAT / Re: Preptest Study Order
« on: October 06, 2009, 05:59:42 PM »
I've read that the curves on the newer preptests are less forgiving than the older ones. Is there any truth to this, and if so, is it b/c the test has gotten harder or b/c people have gotten better at taking it?

It is true that the raw points (# you answer correctly) to scaled score conversion charts have become much less forgiving in the last ~4-5 years than they were in the previous years.  

Meaning that depending on which preptest one uses as a full timed practice test, 90 correct answer choices yielded a higher scaled score on tests from the '90s and pre 2005 era than on tests from 2005 to the present.  

That is a big reason to save and use the majority of the most recent tests for full test timed practice in order to be able to get an accurate gauge of how you are performing and would likely score on a modern administration.  Otherwise, if you base your likely potential score by taking an older test timed you will likely achieve a scaled score that is inflated compared to how you would ultimately score on an upcoming administration with your current skill/performance level.

Why is this the case?  That is a matter of debate and is controlled by very complicated psychometrics (complex math and test development stuff).  

I think the modern tests are much more standardized/predictable/stable than the tests from the past.  The logic tested hasn't changed, but the ways in which it is tested have become much more consistent in many ways.   One of the notable differences is that back in the '90s there were numerous test forms that contained really unusual oddball/non-conventional/one of a kind logic games.  Odd-ball/non traditional logic game types pop-up much less frequently now than before.

160
Studying for the LSAT / Re: Two Questions
« on: October 06, 2009, 01:12:20 PM »
Anyway, I'm just busting your balls about your highly anglo name.

As for the temp:

Weaksauce. It's 13 here in Toronto (high 50s). Below seasonal though - which sucks.

Yeah, I got that, no worries dude.  ;)

And now you have first hand proof of why I can look at my UG and LS transcripts and immediately identify which courses had class and exams in the morning during colder times of the year! 

Whenever I looked at the exam schedules and saw that some were early morning I thought to myself 'Oh crap, that's going to take a bite out of my GPA'   :D :D

Below 60 in Toronto huh, ick.  My ideal temp range is 68-72 degrees. 

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