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Messages - Jeffort

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Studying for the LSAT / Re: what to do?
« on: December 01, 2009, 01:52:24 PM »

Balance your use of time in a healthy way so that you do not burn yourself out. 

Simple things like proper nutrition (fruits, veggies, vitamins, especially B complex vitamins, carbs, protein, etc.), proper and regular sleep pattern, some moderate cardio exercise like a mild jog or some time on the treadmill or something at the gym (but not tons of time on it that will drain you and require recovery time). 

RE:  Should I keep taking timed sections 3 at a time?

ehh, please be more specific.  If you are taking 3 timed sections at a time per day, that is a bad idea.  First of all, there are 4 scored sections and on test day you take 5 sections since they include an experimental section to pre-test questions for use on a later exam. 

If you are doing the 'churn and burn' thing of just doing timed sections everyday, that may be why you are tired.  Moderation is a key factor and much of your prep/study time should be reviewing the recurring tested concepts and techniques to apply to the test as well as reviewing your work to figure out your mistakes and weak points in order to guide your study time to focus on fixing and shoring up your weaknesses. 

As for nutrition and energy, definitely take a B complex vitamin every day.  If you are near a CVS, they have a B-150 complex vitamin under the CVS brand that is pretty cheap. B complex vitamins are very helpful with energy, thinking and lots of other stuff.  Basically, if your pee is not bright yellow, you are not getting enough of those necessary vitamins. 

Eat fruits like apples, oranges and bananas, veggies like cauliflower and broccoli, carbo load with foods that provide complex carbs rather than simple sugars.  Oatmeal is a good one for breakfast.  Pasta with some sort of meat or protein source in it works.  Stuff like that.  And whatever you decide to do, PLEASE do not suddenly binge on energy drinks like redbull or whatever and certainly DO NOT start popping adderall or ritalin or whatever.  That stuff will mess you up big time.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: What Test Should I Take To Get A Baseline Score
« on: December 01, 2009, 01:05:09 PM »
Hi Jeffort,

I can assure you,  I'm not a shill. Actually, I can't ASSURE you that I am not. I can only TELL you that I am not. The only reason I posted those links was because they were so different in level of difficulty, and I thought I might get some explanation of why that is, if I posted the links.

I don't blame you for being on the lookout for people doing that. I've found some great information since joining this forum, and I would hope that there's a minimum of that kind of activity on here.

In an effort to TRY to assure you, consider this:

-Even in the post where I included those links, I didnít ask if anyone recommended those 
-I haven't posted any questions about which materials to use, except when I asked where
 I could find prep tests.
-Sorry if my posts were vague. I thought they were excruciatingly specific and
-If my posts seem ambivalent, itís because I am. Iím 43 years old with a boatload of kids.
 A law degree would allow me to do work that I already know Iím very interested in. I took a
 course in Estate Planning as part of a Certified Financial Planner certificate, and became
 interested in law school. As we all know, law school is no picnic. Iím trying to figure out
 if this is really something I can consider doing, and my score on the LSAT is going to be a
 major factor, because of a low GPA. My situation is anything but typical, so Iím kind
 of all over the place trying to figure this out, before I really hunker down and get serious
 about studying for the LSAT.

To answer some of your questions:

ptoomey, if you are really an actual student seeking admission to Law School and legitimately looking for quality LSAT test prep advice and instruction rather than being a deceptive shill from somewhere like say Atlas LSAT Test prep it would be helpful, since you keep posting vague contradictory stuff, if you would post accurate information about your study plan ideas, things you've done so far, materials you have and gone through or are considering getting, discussing prep ideas, and asking legitimate questions that a real student revving up to take the LSAT would ask, etc.

I donít really have a plan yet, because I havenít figured out if I'm definitely going to apply for law school. At this point, Iím still trying to figure out what a realistic LSAT score might be, how to get a baseline score, how possible it is to improve from that baseline, etc. That's why I've been asking questions in this forum specifically.
Maybe EarlCat can advise whether I should post my questions elsewhere. This seemed like the most logical place to post, but maybe I should ask those types of questions in one of the forums where people have already taken the LSAT. As far as what materials I've worked through - only the 3 sample questions at novapress, and 2 sample Logic Games at the atlas site. My next step is to go through the test that EarlCat pointed me to at the LSAC site.

Hopefully I've assured you. I've been getting a lot of great information on this forum and don't plan to disappear any time soon - unless my score on that baseline is a 130:-) If that happens, ptoomey will be back attending to the aforementioned boatload of kids.

Hey ptoomey,

No worries.  Thanx for the detailed reply. 

Wow, raising several children and simultaneously trying to prep for the LSAT plus working on figuring out the ins and outs of the LS application process is certainly a lot to juggle at the same time.  Just prepping for the LSAT without children and without having other demanding responsibilities can be overwhelming.

I really hope, given the very limited prep you have done, that you are not planning on taking the December 2009 LSAT.  To achieve your maximum potential score on an administered LSAT requires many hours/days/weeks/for some many months of preparation, study, practice and review.  It's not a test that one can cram for at the last minute like is possible with most college exams. 

Some of the basics:  DO NOT study and practice with non authentic LSAT materials that did not appear on a previously administered LSAT.  I looked at the Atlas site and they offer many 'fake' LSAT questions/logic games that were not produced and administered by LSAC and therefore are not REAL LSAT materials. 

The lengthy development, pre-testing, and various other quality control procedures that are based on and controlled by a ton of complex psychometric factors LSAC employs for every question that appears on an administered test in order to ensure they administer a consistent standardized test every administration cannot be duplicated by others.  To say it simply, Friends don't let friends practice with fake LSAT materials.

There are about 60 or so authentic previously administered LSAT tests available for students to use for preparation, so there is no shortage of real materials to use and therefore no need to resort to using synthetic materials.   

Get more authentic LSAT test questions and study, practice and review with those and if you are going to self study rather than hire a tutor or take a class from a quality prep provider, make sure to get quality prep books that only use real LSAT questions.  The Nova press book does not qualify as a quality LSAT self study resource and most of the LSAT prep books you can find on the shelf at book stores are terrible in terms of properly preparing you for the exam.  I've read/reviewed them all over the years.  Feel free to ask questions about anything with your prep process and I'll try to answer them as will EarlCat and possibly others.  I've been teaching and tutoring students how to substantially improve their score for about 9 years now with great success. 

Sorry to have come down hard on you at first. 

Studying for the LSAT / Re: What Test Should I Take To Get A Baseline Score
« on: November 30, 2009, 08:05:59 PM »
Sorry, a little oversensitive in the AM - thought you were being sarcastic.

That's good news that it's possible to improve your score significantly.
It took me around a half hour to do just 2 sample logic games and I only got
around 60% of them right:-)

ptoomey, if you are really an actual student seeking admission to Law School and legitimately looking for quality LSAT test prep advice and instruction rather than being a deceptive shill from somewhere like say Atlas LSAT Test prep it would be helpful, since you keep posting vague contradictory stuff, if you would post accurate information about your study plan ideas, things you've done so far, materials you have and gone through or are considering getting, discussing prep ideas, and asking legitimate questions that a real student revving up to take the LSAT would ask, etc.

It is not even clear when you plan to take the LSAT from your posts and what materials you have been using. 

If you are being truthful and have worked two LSAT logic games you obviously have authentic materials to practice with and know where to get them from, which contradicts your statement that you don't know where to get authentic LSAT PT's to prep with. 

LSAC only provides 8 LG questions for free in that URL and also provides a free full test that EarlCat mentioned.

So, if you are actually an honest student seeking LSAT prep in order to improve your score and gain admission to a quality Law School, getting 60% correct in 30 minutes working the first two full real LSAT logic games you have seen and attempted bodes well for your final score potential. 

Unfortunately, based on the content of your posts I doubt that you are not a shill nor are actually a legitimate student seeking to take the LSAT and gain admission to Law School.  My current opinion/belief is that you are somebody falsely posing as a student and posting as such in order to drive business to Atlas LSAT test prep (that you posted a link to) which has a web page filled with non LSAC authentic administered logic games manufactured from that company, which is the ultimate sin and biggest red flag of them all in terms of rating quality LSAT preparation services. 

Correct me if I'm wrong. 

If you are really a student seeking advice about how to improve your score and got suckered into LSAT prep from an organization that uses non authentic LSAT materials, ask questions and somebody will try to post quality advice for your situation for free.  Me, EarlCat, and others will do so.

If you are a hired shill, please disappear since this board is a no shill zone and that policy is enforced heavily. 

Studying for the LSAT / Re: What to study 2 weeks before the Test
« on: November 28, 2009, 03:43:34 AM »
Good to see you back, and leaving quality advice, as always!


Thanx for the kind words Sean.   :)

Hope you had a good Turkey day and I hope life is treating you well.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: Please Help - retake test date
« on: November 19, 2009, 10:46:34 PM »
if you cancel the test after you take it, law schools are able to see it or it never goes on your record?

is there a way to see your result but not release it to schools? MCAT allowed that.

When one cancels after taking the test the 'would have achieved' score is not reported to or available to either the test taker or to Law Schools.  On the LSAC candidate report that is sent to schools it just lists the date of the test administration with a mark next to it that indicates that the score was canceled.  The LS's will see that and possibly take it into consideration.

Lol at your "decline."  Nobody gets the exact same thing on every test.  Everybody fluctuates to some extent.

There's no reason that you can't sit down right now and get a 162.  It's just that three separate cancellations looks totally weird.  I can't imagine there would ever be a good explanation for it. 

Three cancellations does look fishy to admissions committees, raises some eyebrows and should be addressed in an application addendum.  Doing that in order to attempt to persuade the adcomms to look past them and instead focus on and base their decision on the most recent and hopefully also highest reported LSAT score on record is important to mitigate the negative impact of multiple cancellations.

Multiple cancellations and/or multiple LSAT scores is not fatal to admissions chances but is certainly an obstacle that should be addressed with an explanation.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: What to study 2 weeks before the Test
« on: November 19, 2009, 05:35:43 AM »
Hi guys,

I just got done reviewing all the ? types. So what should I study now. Should I take a diag every 2 days and if so which ones the early 2000's or the 2007-08's.

Also when should be the last day to take a diag--and what games should I focus on studying?

Thank you guys and please pray for me! Ahhhh--the nerves!

Assuming you have thoroughly studied and learned the recurring logical concepts the LSAT tests as well as learning effective LOGICALLY BASED techniques/approaches to use to attack the questions, you should do a balanced blend of how you use your study and practice time.

First things first.  DO NOT fall into the 'churn and burn' trap of the habit of just doing tons of practice tests over and over like many people do, mistakenly thinking that by doing a bunch of timed tests their score will improve substantially.  That does not typically work, leads to burnout and you do not learn much of anything new except how it feels to be frustrated.

While and once having learned/studied all the basics you should mostly practice applying that knowledge and sound techniques you learned to LSAT questions in slow motion.  Meaning that you thoroughly think through each question, making sure to read VERY carefully, get more familiar with the common recurring patterns in question types and types of answer choices offered and make sure that when you read a fresh question you know what approach to apply to it and what types of answer choices to expect.

After all, it's a standardized test.  It tests the same set of acquired logical reasoning, analytical, and reading comprehension skills in the same ways test after test.

With the December test coming soon you should certainly be moving towards taking more timed sections or timed tests or at least putting some time pressure on yourself when doing homework problems.  The essential part for improvement is after having worked some questions or a section or full test, whether timed or not, that you then spend time reviewing it and your mistakes while under no time pressure.  You have to identify your weak areas so that you can study and practice them more to improve them. 

After taking a timed section or timed full test you should definitely spend at LEAST double that amount of time closely reviewing the questions and your performance.  Of course thoroughly review the questions you got incorrect, identify what errors you made that caused you to select a non credited answer choice.  That way you know what your weaknesses are so that you can work to improve them.  Also study and review -in slow motion- questions you took timed that you got correct that were difficult questions you were unsure about and might have gotten correct by a lucky guess. 

The entire goal is for you to be very familiar with the format of the test and the limited types of logic it tests repeatedly and get good at applying logic based techniques you have learned and get all that so ingrained into your mind that you can then do it quickly under the time constraints.

It can be said very simply:  Practice, Review, lather rinse repeat.

Taking several full timed tests in the weeks leading to the test date can be good to help you adjust to and get conditioned for the time pressure, but must also be accompanied with after timed practice slow motion review and dissection time like I described. 

There is no magic number of how many full timed tests to take before the real thing.  Balance taking a timed test or section here and there and then use your time to thoroughly review what went right and what went wrong and seek to correct for your errors.   

With that said, for timing purposes alone, I say that taking at least two full length fresh practice tests per week in the two weeks before test date is good to help you get into the timed mode you face on test day to get conditioned.  You should save the most recent LSAT test forms to use for timed practice in the last two weeks before the real thing.  That is helpful because there have been subtle shifts/changes with the writing style and balance of difficulty and content in the full tests that has been slowly occurring over the last 5+ years.

I also think that taking a practice test or doing any type of LSAT practice the day/night before the exam (and especially the morning of the exam) is a giant mistake. Take the day before the test off from any LSAT prep and let your brain recover and rejuvenate so it will be ready in full form the next morning.


you're back?

uhhm, Yeah.  Otherwise this must be the ghost of Jeffort past typing and it took the LSD server over a year for this post to go through!  :D

So did the test-prep company fire you and pull the plug?   Or did they just wipe out their server and call a sudden halt to everything, like you did when you shut down your website?   Most important, why should anyone pay any attention to you here when you've already proven yourself to be a big crybaby who deletes all his posts and runs away when he feels like it?


I do not appreciate your insulting abusive commentary about me.

If offering and posting my LSAT prep and Law School related advice for free is a sin, then I am a sinner.  I do regret having agreed to circumstances that required me to delete all my previous posts here and elsewhere over a year ago, it will not happen again. 

Please drop your hater attitude, it's not cool.

Thanx for the compliments Trev and Earlcat.  :)


you're back?

uhhm, Yeah.  Otherwise this must be the ghost of Jeffort past typing and it took the LSD server over a year for this post to go through!  :D

Wow, achieving a 163 having only prepped for less than one week is impressive.  It demonstrates that you already have a good 'natural' grasp of the types of logic, reasoning and reading skills that the LSAT measures.  It's pretty rare for people to score that high first time with little or no prep.

Given your high 'didn't really prep score', with some serious prep time you should be able to score even higher if you re-take and perhaps achieve a score in the 98th or 99th percentile range (170 or above).  That type of a score along with a 3.9 GPA would certainly put you in the range and make you a competitive applicant to pretty much any Law School.

Since you indicated that your preferred LS's depends on where your significant other (SO) gets accepted to and decides to attend medical school, it would be excellent to have a nice 170+ LSAT along with your 3.9 GPA in order to keep all options open. 

Any idea about the likely areas your SO will end up attending medical school?  Since you are following her wherever in the country to be with her (great combination BTW, a doctor and a lawyer as a couple, I love it!  You two could be a dangerous duo with both degrees!) you should research the GPA/LSAT admission index ranges of good LS's in the areas your SO might attend medical school.  That way you can figure out a list of the LS's you need to be a competitive applicant at. 

If it turns out that a 3.9/163 makes you a very strong applicant at all the LS's near all the possible places she may attend MS there would little point in re-taking the LSAT.  However, that scenario is unlikely.

I suggest you do some research about the factors I mentioned and use that as your guide and basis for your decision.  If you do re-take the LSAT, in order to significantly increase your score you MUST dedicate a LOT of time to doing quality preparation/studying/practicing/reviewing/etc., otherwise, without significant prep time, you would likely score close to the same as you did the first time and the re-take would end up being pointless.

Studying for the LSAT / Re: study help - June 2006 LSAT section 1
« on: October 18, 2009, 07:09:32 PM »
You seem to have overlooked the end part of the stimulus where it uses the words "known" and "unique".

That means that the test focuses on pollen types that current scientific knowledge indicates only exist/are only found (meaning not transported there from somewhere else) in one particular geographic region on the earth.  Being unique to a region means that you cannot find it anywhere other than there.

If a certain type of pollen can only be found in one place on earth and some of it is clinging to an object, then the object has to have been in that place.

Answer choice (A) is credited and weakens the statement because it points out the possibility that pollen could be moved from one place to another by humans or wind and THEN get transferred to and cling to an object that was never in the area the pollen originated from. 

For instance, you could wander some fields in Afghanistan, get some one of a kind poppy pollen on your clothes/shoes/on your hands or wherever, then board a flight before washing or changing clothes, land in the USA and transfer the pollen to another object in America that was never in Afghanistan.

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