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Messages - Maintain FL 350

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Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Chosing a School
« on: February 09, 2016, 12:27:15 PM »
When you're talking about non-elite schools I think it all comes down to money and location. Personally, if it were me making this decision, I would simply go with the cheapest option in a city that I would like to live in.

Geographically you're all over the place, which leads me to believe that you're applying based on rankings. At this level, I think that's a mistake. These schools all have good local reputations but none of them are going to open up doors outside of their immediate region. If you go to Syracuse or Penn State, for example, you will almost certainly end up working in NY or western PA. It would very difficult to obtain internships or job interviews in CA if you're on the other side of the country. So, you need to be REALLY sure that you're cool with living in that area for a long time.

Secondly, the less debt you accrue the better. You asked whether De Paul or Loyola-Chicago is worth $120k.

Well, have you looked at the average starting salaries from those schools, and then factored in living expenses, a car, etc? In my opinion, no schools outside the T14 are worth six figures of debt. Even the T14 aren't really worth it unless your goal is Biglaw, a federal clerkship, something where pedigree really matters.

Again, this is only my personal opinion, but if I had a choice between Chapman for free or a similarly regarded school at $120k, it's a no-brainer. Your employment options are going to be very similar coming out of any of these schools, the primary difference being location. 

Law School Admissions / Re: Considering Law School - mid 40's
« on: February 08, 2016, 09:03:34 AM »
I wasn't asking for a summary, I was trying to figure out what you meant. You're reading comp needs work.

I assume you mean that only crappy lawyers go to part time programs? Yeah, I remember all those loser part timers at Georgetown. They were going nowhere.

Politics and Law-Related News / Re: POTUS
« on: February 07, 2016, 10:29:59 AM »
...or perhaps some of us have actual experience with federal investigations and understand the process beyond wishful thinking.

Law School Admissions / Re: Considering Law School - mid 40's
« on: February 07, 2016, 10:27:21 AM »
Meaning what, exactly?

Law School Admissions / Re: Considering Law School - mid 40's
« on: February 05, 2016, 03:02:33 PM »
Part time programs are four years, including summers.

Politics and Law-Related News / Re: POTUS
« on: February 03, 2016, 10:04:23 AM »
Hillary Clinton IS the subject of a criminal FBI investigation regarding mishandling and gross negligence regarding classified information.

See? This is why I hate the interwebs. It makes me have to defend people that I don't even particularly like, such as Hillary Clinton.

Cinnamon: there is an FBI investigation into how classified documents were handled at the State Dept, Clinton's emails have been looked at as part of that investigation, but Clinton is NOT the subject of the investigation.

This may sound like I'm over-parsing my words, but that's how law works! If you're NOT the subject of the investigation your chances of being indicted are nil unless the focus of the investigation switches to you.

Could that happen here? Possibly, but other than Tom DeLay claiming that he has "sources" who warn of an impending indictment, there is no evidence to support the claim.

I know that you want very badly for Clinton to be the subject of the investigation and to be indicted, but wishing won't make it happen. So far, they have found no indictable offense.

Law School Admissions / Re: Considering Law School - mid 40's
« on: February 02, 2016, 10:35:26 AM »
I started law school when I was about thirty. I had a wife, kid, mortgage, etc. I did the four year part-time evening thing. Here are my thoughts, hopefully you will find them useful.

Time Commitment

I assume that you will be working during law school. Working and going to law school is a GRIND. Law school is far more demanding than undergrad. Most people I know who had an MA/MBA felt that law school was more demanding than their grad program, too.

There is really nothing part time about a part time JD. Instead of five classes per semester you will take three or four plus summer school, all while working. My first semester I took Contracts, Torts, Legal Writing/Research. The next semester Criminal Law was added. I would go straight from work to law school, classes from 6-9:30, (sometimes later) M-TH. Every lunch break, weekend and holidays were spent reading and briefing and preparing for exams.

If you allow yourself to fall behind in law school it is very difficult to catch up. The volume of information that you will be required to ingest, and the speed with which it comes at you, requires constant preparation. 

I don't know if you have a family, but for four years you will have to make significant compromises with family time. Even if you're single, your social life will be on hiatus at least for the first two years. 


I have no idea what your financial situation is, but in your forties you should be looking to avoid any new debt.

I would suggest that you seriously consider making your decision based on scholarships. If you do well on the LSAT and can attend a local school for very cheap as opposed to a big name school for $150K, I'd take the cheaper route.

If you don't do well on the LSAT, retake. Minimizing debt should be a top priority.


I always tell prospective law students to be realistic in their expectations. Law is more boring than you think, and you will almost certainly not get a great, interesting, high paying job fresh out of law school. Unless you graduate from Harvard, you're going to have to slog through some crap in order to get experience.

It sounds like you want to be a solo practitioner, which is great. You already have corporate/business experience which puts you ahead of the average 25 year old new grad. But, even so, you're going to have to learn labor/employment law somewhere. It is very difficult to go solo straight out of law school. Law school teaches you the law in an academic manner, but doesn't really prepare you to practice. The people I know who went straight into solo practice and were successful were already paralegals, law office managers, that sort of thing. The already knew the ropes. You will need to learn the ropes from someone else, so be prepared to work for a firm or govt office for a while.

Which brings me to my next point: hiring sucks right now. Research your local market, be realistic about the options.


Are you too old? No, but be sure to look at ALL of the attendant facts (not just your subjective hopes and desires), and make an informed decision.

Job Search / Re: Re: Testing Period
« on: February 01, 2016, 04:47:24 PM »
I agree with Loki, I've never heard of a probationary period for a summer internship. I mean, the whole thing only lasts a couple of months anyway.

I agree, it is not an automatic block to becoming an attorney but it will require you to answer a bunch of questions. How you answer is very, very important.

In CA this would slow down your bar application. You have to provide an addendum explaining the whole sordid affair, they would take extra time investigating, and you may be asked to attend an committee review. But, assuming that you have otherwise kept your nose clean, you'd probably be admitted.

Each state has it's own rules. Some are stricter, some are easier. Check with your state bar.

My question is how likely would it be to be re-admitted in a situation like this, if I had a external circumstances which contributed to my failure the first time around, how should I present these on the application, and would I be eligible to apply to other law schools as well?

There are a few things to address here.

Right off the bat, you're going to have a hard time getting admitted. Getting suspended for cheating puts a big red flag on your application.

The likelihood of your being readmitted to any school is based on many variables. How you did gradewise while you were in law school, the seriousness of the academic dishonesty, and what you've done since then. Can you somehow demonstrate that your circumstances have changed?

In my opinion, unless you can clearly identify the problems that lead you to plagiarize AND convincingly demonstrate that those problems are behind you, it's going to be tough. I mean, why admit someone who you think will repeat the same behaviors?

You mentioned "external circumstances". I'm telling you right now that nobody, not the law schools and definitely not the bar association, want to hear lame excuses for cheating. It will not help you. You need to own up to your actions if you want a chance at being a lawyer.

You also need to check with your state's bar regarding the Character and Fitness application. Getting suspended for cheating is a big deal, and even if you are readmitted to law school you will definitely have to answer a lot of questions from the bar. This will hold up your admission, at the least. Make sure that you can actually get admitted to the bar before spending the money on a JD. If and when you apply to law schools and the bar it is imperative that you be absolutely 100% honest. You must disclose your cheating with total candor.

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